April 29th - "From The Vault" with Molly Cook, Mike and Kyle of GAY-ISH, and the Texas Bathroom Bill

This is a "best of" episode of QUEER VOICES, including three of our most popular segments. First up, Bryan Hlavinka interviewed Molly Cook back when she was running for Texas Senate. Brett Cullum spoke with Mike and Kyle from the podcast GAY-ISH about the word QUEER. And finally, Ethan Michelle Ganz spoke with an ex-teacher about the Texas Bathroom Bill and its impact on his career.  And just for fun, Madonna and K.D. Lang sings us off. 

Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here.  Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond.  Check out our socials at:

https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/

Transcript

Vault Preview And Lineup

SPEAKER_09 0:02

This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9 FM Huntsville, and worldwide on the internet at KPFT.org.

Brett 0:23

You're listening to Queer Voices, a radio show and a podcast that has been an outlet for the LGBTQIA community since the 70s. I am Brett Cullum, and in this episode, we're heading into the vaults. Think of this as a best of episode, if you will. First up, we have Brian Lavinka interviewing Molly Cook back when she was first running for the Texas Senate. Then we have me talking about the word queer with Mike and Kyle from the Gayish podcast. We also have Ethan Michelle Gantz talking to an ex-teacher about the bathroom bill and its impact on his career. Queer Voices starts now.

Deborah 1:04

This radio program, Queer Voices, has existed since the 1970s on KPFT. We have this little crew of folks working every week to produce what's no longer unique because we're almost mainstream now, but we're still an important voice that might not otherwise get heard because it's not on that many places. So KPFT is very important to give voices to those who might not otherwise have voices. So as Glenn always says, you participate by listening. You should also participate by supporting the station. So please go to KPFT.org and make your donation right away.

SPEAKER_10 1:57

This is Brian Levinka, and today I'm interviewing Molly Cook. Molly, who are you and why are you running for office?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Thank you so much, Brian. Um, I am Molly Cook. I use she, her pronouns. I am an emergency room nurse, medical professional, and a community organizer. And I am running for Texas Senate.

SPEAKER_10 2:14

Why run now?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I get that question a lot. And I'm running now because I'm alive right now. And now is always the time for young people, for medical professionals, for members of the LGBTQ community to get out there and be leaders and shape the change that's happening around us. But in Texas, we are particularly in a moment of crisis when it comes to a lot of the public health outcomes and values that we cherish. So we need people to stand up now and take a stand for what's right in our state.

SPEAKER_10 2:44

Talk about some of the challenges that you're referring to.

A District Map Of Houston

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Texas, unfortunately, ranks uh pretty low for most public health outcomes, most quality of life outcomes that we measure, frankly. And as you know, the trans community, the LGBTQ community at large has been under a direct and violent attack. People do not have access to the health care that they need and deserve. Doctors cannot practice freely in this state, cannot provide uh data-driven or evidence-based care. And for so many people, uh, you know, 15% of the district lives in poverty right now. And there are not services and systems that can act as safety nets or uplift the communities who need them the most. So it's it's time for the state to change course and to invest in public goods and public services that will make a meaningful difference no matter which community you're so talking about your district.

SPEAKER_10 3:35

Where is it and where does it cover?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Our district is entirely in Harris County. It is absolutely amazing. It's really diverse. It's shaped like a horseshoe that kind of starts in the southwest corner of Bel Air, Mireland, West U. It includes all of Montrose and the Heights. It includes Independence Heights, Acres Homes, Inwood, uh, Garden Oaks, Oak Forest, parts of Spring Branch, all the way up to nearly Jersey Village. It has the airport and Aldeen, a little bit of Umble. And then on the east side, we even have Sheldon and Pleasantville. So it is just a really cool, diverse, historic district. Um, and I mean diverse in every single sense of the word, what folks say at the door, um, differences in life experiences, racial diversity, income diversity, however you measure it.

Door Knocking And Earning Trust

SPEAKER_10 4:21

I've gotten several knock on my doors for Molly Cook's campaign. Can you talk about knocking on doors and what you've heard in out in the field?

Day One Plans In Austin

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Absolutely. That's my favorite thing to talk about. It's knocking on doors. I'm really proud to have been knocking on this on doors in this district for years, long before I even knew that I was running for it, as a part of my work with a team of volunteers, a grassroots organization, to stop TechStot from widening I-45 and instead invest in multimodal transportation solutions in a project that really meets people's needs and centers racial justice, environmental justice, and safety. So I've had the distinct pleasure of knocking on doors in this district for a really, really long time. And what I have found over and over again is that when you show up repeatedly, when you bring good information, when you follow through on promises, you really start to build a reputation and earn trust in these neighborhoods. And folks are comfortable relying on you for credible information and for ways to plug into these fights that are affecting them and affecting the change in their backyards. So we are very committed on this campaign, not just because it is strategically the right decision, but because ethically it is the right decision to reaching people at their doorsteps in the language that they prefer repeatedly so that they know what's happening in your democratic process, how can you be a part of it, and where do you need to go to make your voices heard?

SPEAKER_10 5:44

Talk about working in Austin. What will you do on day one to make a difference?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I'm gonna pick up right where I've left off after the last session. So after I primaried the previous senator in 2022 and got 42% of the vote, um, I had to turn around and figure out what comes next. And what I kept hearing from neighborhoods and communities across our district is that folks show up when they want your vote and then they don't show up again. So I said, Well, I'm gonna show up again. So I helped run a charter amendment campaign, worked at the bedside, et cetera. But I had pleasure of running a legislative pilot program for our district and administered a survey in two languages and got back about 90 responses and worked with those folks throughout the session to create a bill tracker that reflects the values of the district. We followed bills together, we traveled back and forth to Austin, helped folks develop comments on policies that affect them. Some people gave their first ever public comments, and we worked on issues that affect, you know, the rights of children to be and express membership in the LGBTQ community and the rights of researchers to research that and understand it. We championed environmental justice issues during the Texas Commission for Environmental Equality sunset review process. We worked on a transportation portfolio, worked on um advocating for bills about disability justice. I mean, you name it, right? The Texas landscape can be very discouraging. But what I found in our district is that folks understand that you can't talk about one issue without talking about every issue. You can't talk about school safety without talking about common sense firearms. You can't talk about maternal mortality without talking about racial justice. And our district understands that. That came through in the survey and it came through work that we did. So we'll pick right back up where we left off, be ready to file some bills day one that I know the district supports and wants, and continue to make the capital accessible to every single person who wants to help shape that change.

SPEAKER_10 7:43

So talk to me about the endorsements that you received.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I am so proud. Thank you for asking that of our list of endorsements. Um, we have a pretty strong list of local endorsements, including groups like the Houston LGBTQ political caucus. We got Greater Heights Dems, which is really exciting, Harris County Young Democrats. I'm very proud to be really leading the charge here on helping to turn out young voters and engage young voters. And of course, you can see a list of all of them on Mollyfortexas.com and most recently earned the Leaders We Deserve endorsement. And I'm very, very proud of that one. Um David Hogg is an incredible leader in our nation for not just firearm safety reforms, but also for young people getting elected and beginning to really take our place in our political landscape nationally. So, yeah, very proud. And then, of course, a list of elected officials and community leaders and precinct chairs are on our website as well.

Organizing Energy Across Texas

SPEAKER_10 8:38

What have you learned during this campaign?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Every single moment of any campaign is a learning process, which is very exciting. I mean, you learn from people when you knock on their doors, you learn from folks when you show up to these hearings and hear testimony, learn from organizations as they sit and meet with you and work through, possibly endorsing you, et cetera. Um, and what I continue to learn about Texans and have been really encouraged by during this particular round is that there is a lot of interest and energy that folks want to invest in organizing. People understand that we are not going to make the changes that we want to see in this state until um more Democrats are in office and until Democrats are in office in the highest offices in this state. And I am seeing a lot of energy from the issue organizing side of things where I come from, as well as the electoral side of things where I've been spending the last few years. And folks are ready. Folks are ready to knock on doors, to make those phone calls and to get this information and education out to their communities to make sure that people are turning out to vote. And that's been kind of the biggest um swell of energy that I've seen during this round of campaigning.

Abortion Ban And Reproductive Justice

SPEAKER_10 9:49

I mean, talk about the reproductive issue in Texas and what go from here.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, you know, as a woman, as a nurse who has had an abortion in this state, there is just uh hardly anything else that's more personal to me and more important to me. And what is um sad and terrifying, but also exciting to me, is every single door that I knock on, that is a number one issue. And I don't care who it is at that door, what their gender is or what their lived experience is, getting abortion rights and reproductive justice and bodily autonomy back in Texas is a huge priority for Democratic voters in Texas Senate District 15. And we have a total abortion ban. And we are seeing that sort of draconian policy play out among every kind of community. So, of course, black and brown communities will pay a higher price than anybody else when it comes to a loss of rights to safe and legal and stigma-free abortions. Of course, we see um horrible consequences playing out for the LGBTQ community, whether that's trans children not being able to access, you know, evidence-based and data-driven care or folks who need it, um, not being able to access an abortion regardless of their gender. So that is a number one priority for me. It's a number one priority for our district. And I think it's gonna be a real opportunity to build the grassroots power that we need in Texas to flip those seats and make real change around public health and public safety issues.

How To Follow Molly Cook

SPEAKER_10 11:18

Where can people find out more information about your campaign, Molly?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Everyone can always go to our website. It's Mollyfortexas.com, all spelled out. And then our social media is at Molly for Texas across Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. And I always tell folks, if you're just kind of curious, who am I, what have I been up to for the last few years, go check out the Instagram. It really is sort of a repository of a lot of the work that I've been doing with different groups across town, specifically associated with the campaign, but also with the issue organizing spaces that I've been grateful to be a part of. So Mollyfortexas.com and at Molly for Texas across social media.

SPEAKER_10 11:52

Is there anything that I did not ask that you want our listeners to know?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

It's um really exciting and important to note. Uh, not that it's absolutely everything, but I would be the first woman in this seat and the first out member of the Texas Senate ever. And that is the kind of change that we're looking for. That is the kind of change that we need in Texas to lift up the next generation and start um start being able to be proactive about the changes that we want to see. Stop playing defense and get out there and make Texas the Texas we know it can be.

SPEAKER_10 12:22

We're speaking to Molly Cook. And for more information, go to Mollyfortexas.com. Thank you, Molly.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 12:29

This is Queer Voices.

Brett 12:34

I am Brett Cullum. Right now I am joined by two guys who do a podcast in the Pacific Northwest. It's one of my personal favorites to listen to, and I am happy to welcome Mike and Kyle, the hosts of Gay Ish. Hi guys, I am totally fangirling right now, so excuse me, but welcome to Queer Voices.

SPEAKER_06 12:54

Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's great to be here. And and don't worry, we put our pants on the same as everybody else.

Brett 13:00

All right. I may ask for a demonstration later. But okay, so I brought you on to address a specific problem that we have. But first, I wanted to find out about you guys because I get the chance to talk to you. So, gay-ish, how did you get that title?

SPEAKER_06 13:16

Well, so when we were starting the podcast, Kyle and I sat down and and on a literal whiteboard wrote out a bunch of ideas for for the the show's name. And I I think the the working title at one point was like Mike and Kyle talk to each other about stuff and explore what it means to be gay. It's a horrendously long title. But the whole concept behind the podcast was just wanting to explore this idea that there's no wrong way to be gay, that gay culture isn't a monolith, that if you as a gay man don't feel like all of it applies to you, that doesn't invalidate you. We just wanted to explore gay stereotypes and really talk about what they mean and how they came to be, and and explore the feeling that he and I both had that that we were gay-ish in a lot of ways.

Brett 13:59

Do you ever notice that like there's certain things that you think I'm not stereotypically gay this way?

SPEAKER_05 14:04

Yeah, all the time. There's always we do a segment on a show every week called Gayest and Straightest, which is the stereotypically gayest and straightest thing about us that week. And so we're always finding things that are like, this is what a straight dude would do right now. Why am I doing it? And does that make me any less gay? And of course the answer is no, it doesn't. But it's fun to explore kind of what those stereotypes are and how you what you fit and don't fit about them.

SPEAKER_06 14:28

So, how did you guys meet? I came out at 30 and I was looking for a way to meet gay people, and I joined the employee resource group at Microsoft, and Kyle had just as a recent college grad started working there and was on the board or membership team for Glean, which is gay and lesbian employees at Microsoft. And that's how we met at a work event for for clear Microsoft.

Brett 14:50

And you, Mike, you were mentioning that you didn't come out till later. You were actually married to a woman at some point, is that right?

SPEAKER_06 14:55

Yeah, I have an ex-wife and an ex-husband. So I I you know Pokemon, I did it. I caught them all.

Brett 15:02

So you came out later, but Kyle, you actually came out a little bit younger.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Yeah, I came out during college when I was 19.

Brett 15:09

Good age to do that for sure.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Yeah, it was the right time for me. I grew up in Houston, went to school in Austin, and being in Austin helps me show that there are lots of different kinds of people. It's a little bit more diversity of experience there that I could then kind of learn to be myself and learn who I was.

Brett 15:27

So, Kyle, your roots are actually here locally in Houston.

SPEAKER_05 15:30

Yeah. Yeah, I grew up in Katie.

The Word Queer And Backlash

Brett 15:31

Okay, well, I'm really familiar with that. All right. Okay, so what you guys do on gay ish a lot of times is you take a topic and you research the heck out of it, and you come up with all this data and all of these interesting points, and week to week it changes. Your topics are very varied. I don't think that they're always typically what I would think of two gay guys would talk about. Although sometimes, like when you bring up Kylie Minogue, I'm like, yeah, okay, that's pretty gay. And that was probably the gayest thing I did that week listening to your podcast about Kylie Minogue. But this is why I brought you guys to Queer Voices here in Houston. You both did an episode about internalized homophobia. Mike and Kyle on gay is talked about different things and different aspects of this. But one of the things you mentioned was that a lot of times we have this reaction to the word queer. And we've been talking as a radio show and as a podcast that whenever we post on our personal Facebooks, Twitter, LinkedIn, queer voices gets a lot of backlash over the choice of our title and calling ourselves queer. People really react to that negatively. And you guys kind of talked about that. Do you recall kind of that conversation in the podcast?

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Or yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I I stand by the assessment that it's largely internalized homophobia. It's nuanced and you have to pick it apart, but I I I think that all of that angst, that's where it comes from.

Brett 16:49

Well, I think it's notable that almost every word that we have for ourselves as a community, whether you're LGBTQIA or whatever letter you fall in, it's people use these descriptions and they were negative for a long time. And they really have homophobic or transphobic origins just in general, like even the words we use to describe ourselves. How do you get to define yourselves? Like Kyle, how do you define yours if you're gonna pick a letter?

SPEAKER_05 17:15

I always use gay and queer. Uh gay, I think, is the most like accurate. So if I had to just pick one, it would be gay. But yeah, usually gay and queer are the two words that I use because I feel like part of not feeling like you totally fit in with gay stereotypes is also like queer allows for a little bit of that uniqueness and difference in your experience that may not align with exactly what every gay man has gone through.

Brett 17:38

And Mike, same thing, because we know a little bit about your history, so what do you kind of line up with?

SPEAKER_06 17:42

Yeah, I'll also gay. I I identify as gay, but I I like the term queer as a umbrella term, right? Like there's a lot of either alphabet soup, LGBTQIA plus two spirit, like all of all of that. And and there's so many identities that are on the bubble between those things, and and and queer is just a good shorthand term for all of those. So I identify as a member of the queer community, a part of the queer umbrella diaspora, and and my my particular identity is a Ciscay man.

Brett 18:10

I always feel like queer saves time, but I don't have to do the whole LGBTQIA 2S plus plus, you know, all of these things that we it just seems to get longer and longer and longer. And it's great because we're trying to include everybody, but at the same time, I like having an umbrella term, and I like just having a shorthand hey, this is the queer community, and this is a part that I am, and even though I identify mostly as a gay man, I've had experiences that weren't considered queer. I mean, that's and obviously you have. I mean, you have an ex-wife.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

Yep, absolutely. And I I think there are so many attempts to divide the community these days by the political right in our country. And I I think having a unifying term is really useful there too. Like it's important for us to remember that we are in the same boat as trans folks when it comes to fundamental rights. We're in the same boat as gender non-conforming folks in in in in terms of just our right to exist. And I I think having having a term that we can use that is that shorthand that's easy to say and quick, it provides a sense of solidarity and community, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

And I think it helps, you know, if someone may not know a trans person, so they'll but if they know me, they know a queer person. And if uh if we're all under the queer umbrella, then it's like, okay, I'm I know a queer person. So it it adds a little bit of sense of familiarity and ability to kind of know queer people more more individually, but if we all are part of that umbrella.

Brett 19:36

I did a little research. I was trying to get into my gayish mode of researching my topic, and I realized that it says that it's uncertain really where queer came from. There's a debate of whether it's a Germanic word or if it was a Scottish term, but it somehow entered the English language probably by the early 16th century, and it was primarily used to mean strange, odd, peculiar, eccentric, somehow off-center. But by the late 19th century, it was being used colloquially to refer to same-sex attracted men. And actually, the men themselves adopted that term first and used it as an identifier, and then it kind of became a slur. And I know growing up, I heard it as a slur a lot of times. I mean, there was always that game, you know, smear the queer and things like that. So did you guys grow up with that sense of the word, or did you grow up with a more positive?

SPEAKER_06 20:24

I'm I'm in my mid-40s, and at least my childhood, we played smear the queer on the on the football field, and that was that was a word that got thrown around pejoratively. I it it's interesting. I think that the people that push back the hardest against that word do seem to be like my age and older. There are exceptions to every rule, but like the the trend seems to be gay dudes in their fifties and sixties that seem to have the biggest problem with that word. I think that the positive connotation came later. So I I don't know, Kyle, uh does that match your childhood experience?

SPEAKER_05 20:54

I did not hear the word queer thrown at me a whole lot. I heard other words that like I remember distinctly being called fruity or gay. Like those, you know, I I got called other variations.

Brett 21:07

I think I got called everyone in the book. Yeah. To be honest. And I'm probably closer to Mike's age, I would guess. But I definitely heard it a lot of different variations and and used very pejoratively and things like that. In the 60s and 70s, we saw more of a rise of queer culture and people trying to kind of get that term back. And I think most notably it was probably the 1980s and 90s when the Queer Nation used to use it as a chant. You know, we're here, we're queer, get used to it. It kind of became a badge of honor almost to call yourself that.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

I think people don't realize that you know that they think it's a new thing to use the word queer, and we are using it now as a umbrella term to describe the whole GBT plus umbrella. But yeah, we've been using the word queer since the nineties with with queer nation. So it's not new that we're reclaiming this term, it's Being we've been reclaiming it for a while.

Brett 22:02

Yeah, and I think that it's more typical to like for gay men. I think gay means men a lot of times now. I don't think it's it used to be I've talked to a lot of lesbians that tell me that there was a time before when gay kind of was an umbrella term that now queer has kind of taken that place because lesbian came out and that was start of the kind of branching out into these different groups and having you may remember when Ellen de Generis came out on her show, it was because she leaned into a hot microphone and said, I'm gay.

SPEAKER_06 22:29

And at least in the 90s at that time, that was that was uh I think less gendered term than it has become, where it's not gay implies male and and and lesbian is the the female equivalent.

Queer Voices History And Place

Brett 22:40

Well, one of the things that our listeners may not know is that this radio show it it has a 50-year history. And when it was started, it was definitely not called queer voices. We actually were called Wilde and Stein, and it was for Oscar Wilde and Gertrude Stein, and that was the identity of gay, lesbian type thing. And then it became lesbian and gay voices, and then a man that's here, that's an activist, Jack Wolinsky, he was an executive producer of the show, and in January of 2002, he decided that, hey, I'm gonna call this Queer Voices. And they had a segment on the show which was very popular at the time, where it was Queer Music Heritage hosted by JD Doyle. So they rebranded it back then. So it's been it's been our title for about 24 years. But it's interesting that it causes such a controversy and that it's still such a thing. I wonder, you guys are Pacific Northwest, you're Seattle. So what's your climate like? What do you feel like? Do you feel like that gay is accepted, queer is accepted? I imagine Seattle's a little bit more progressive than here in Texas.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

Yeah, it definitely feels more progressive than when I was in Texas. Then again, I was growing up and wrestling with my own internalized homophobia at the time. So yeah, it feels very accepted here. I think it's been the most recent time where someone like yelled a slur out of their car at me was when I was traveling. So it's it's other places that I experienced more of the backlash than here in Seattle.

Brett 24:04

And Mike, did you grow up in the Pacific Northwest or were you like Kyle and came there?

SPEAKER_06 24:08

I I'm a lifelong Washingtonian. I only lived outside of Washington State for three months, and that was 25 years ago. But I grew up in eastern Washington. So I grew up in in the rural agrarian conservative part of the state. It's I grew up in Trump country, even though it's only a two-hour drive from very, very liberal, liberal blue Seattle.

Brett 24:29

Well, I sometimes feel like I still am in Trump country, but even though we're in Houston and we're solidly blue in the inner city.

SPEAKER_06 24:36

Which that's that's uh that's typical, right? Like we have this myth of the red state, blue state. And it any way you slice it, we really are blue urban centers in a sea of red. And it's just a question of how how urban is that state's populace.

Brett 24:51

It's interesting. Texas politics really plays a lot to the outliers, the country folk, Houston, Austin, Dallas, blue in any election. And it's really the wide expanse of country counties that really hold us hostage and beholden to this kind of red state mentality. So it's interesting. And you guys are kind of flipped. I mean, that's you're pretty much in blue country, except for those kind of outer things going on. I mean, how did you feel, Kyle, when you came from Texas to the Pacific Northwest? What's the difference?

SPEAKER_05 25:20

I always felt like Austin was a good kind of training ground for me to experience to get to a far more liberal city. Austin helped me, like I was still in Texas. We still had that, you know, same Texas pride and and Texas roots that I grew up with, but it was more liberal. So it I think it was a good transition city for me to eventually move up to Seattle. And that my experience in Austin helped me understand kind of what I was getting myself into by moving to a more progressive city.

Coming Out Stories And Lost Time

Brett 25:49

And Mike, why did it take so long for you to come out? I mean, what was the internal struggles there? Or did you know, or what was that journey for you like?

SPEAKER_06 25:56

It it's a it's a great question. I I knew that I was gay. I was out to myself at around puberty time, 12, 13 years old, give or take. And growing up in eastern Washington in the late 80s, I there was no visible community whatsoever. I didn't know any gay people except for my great uncle. And I watched him and his partner die of AIDS. And then on TV, we were largely just jokes. We were comic relief at that time, what little representation that we had. So I had this message that to be gay was to be invisible or a joke or debt. And I didn't want to be any of those three three things, so I was just determined to not be gay. I was gonna fight this thing and live live a straight life because that's what I thought I wanted. But by the time by the time I turned 30, though, I had moved to the Seattle area and met a lot of really happy, well-adjusted, amazing, queer people, and it just slowly chipped away this idea that it was a life or lifestyle that I didn't want or couldn't identify with. The issues that I had with my with my marriage, but ultimately came out and and started the process of getting a divorce all all just right before my 30th birthday.

Brett 27:08

What does it feel like coming into this a little bit later in life? Because I think that the gay world a lot of times is driven by youth. I think that we do a lot of making youth an ideal.

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Yeah.

Brett 27:18

So how do you feel coming in as an older man from the from the job?

SPEAKER_06 27:22

Yeah, I mean, it's funny now being 45 and looking back and thinking the 30s old or older, but uh like it it I I think that you're right, we are youth obsessed as a culture, but I also know that I got out, I was lucky in a lot of ways. There are a lot of men who come out in their 50s, and that's because they got married to the white pick attendance thing and had kids and then raised those kids, and they don't find their opportunity or their escape route until after the kids leave for college. It's it's a really common story of the the 55-ish year old man who the kids are out of the house and now I'm gonna go live my gay life. So, from a certain perspective, I'm really lucky and and grateful that it was 30 instead of 50 or 60, right? At the same time, I I did feel like I had been cheated out of a a youth that I deserved and had thank God for therapy.

Brett 28:15

And Kyle, you kind of always had this identity. I mean, you've has that been the case or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:20

I think that I just needed enough time to realize that it wasn't going away. I think my hope the entire time I like Mike around puberty knew I was gay, or at least knew that I liked boys. I don't know that I knew exactly how to define it, but I was just waiting for it to go away. That's and then by the time I got in college, I was like, okay, this has been around long enough that this is not changing. So that's when I when I came out. And I still feel like I was, you know, Mike talked about being robbed of kind of a younger experience. I feel like I was robbed of a younger experience in high school, you know, being out and being gay. I wish I could have had that experience and had my first kiss with a boy instead of with a girl that I felt like I was supposed to, or, you know, I think I'm I'm glad I got that experience in my 20s being out, but feel like I could have had more had I come out sooner.

Reclaiming Painful Words Together

Brett 29:09

I feel like we both had similar experiences, and I feel like I have a lot in common with Mike as well. I think that I struggled a lot coming out, and I have a lot of internalized homophobia that I had to get over, especially at the times that we all kind of came out. It was, I mean, let's face it, queer wasn't just a pejorative, gay was a pejorative. I mean, it was like a sense of we were in the middle of this medical crisis and people were dying, and it was uh a scary time to really find that identity. I really envy the kids now that have that spectrum to look at already, and they've got all of these different things. And that's what I appreciate about the word queer, is that at least now we've got an umbrella and we don't have a specific label that you know says you're gay, you're trans, you're you know, lesbian, and although we all identify as that, but we do have this nice umbrella term. That's one of the things I appreciate about having a queer culture, if you will. Yeah, I think it's a little bit more expansive.

SPEAKER_06 30:01

Yeah, I I I think that there are there are gay men of a certain age who seem to look at the queer youth and say, you know, they don't they don't respect us and they don't respect our history and they're ignorant to like the AIDS crisis, and they didn't have to put up with all of the issues that we did for fighting for our rights, etc. And I I just wanted I just want to shake those people and say, wasn't this what you were fighting for? Wasn't having wasn't having that not being this huge crisis wasn't like this this is what we want. And a youth that is ignorant to those challenges is what we wanted, I would think. Because they're not going through them. They have different challenges. There's a lot going on in the world that still needs to improve. But thank God they don't know anything about age. That's that's exactly what we want. I think that when we look at the word queer, there's a lot of people who react to that word because it immediately takes them back to getting beat up on the playground and getting called that, and they just can't get over themselves. And the hurt that that caused to realize that reclaiming that word and putting power to it and having it as an identity that helps people and makes them feel like they belong to a community far outweighs whatever their personal painful reaction is to that word in the moment.

Brett 31:14

I mean, I definitely feel that, and I I see that reaction a lot. I see this visceral reaction to the word, and it's somebody that has maybe that internalized struggle of I can't get over this. I can't get over this era. One of the things that's interesting too is queer has also become a term to differentiate the transgender community as to whether they are a queer trans woman or maybe a straight trans woman by their preference of relationships, how they identify as a gender as well, which I think is a wild concept as well. It's a definitely a new layer to that word.

Umbrella Term Versus Personal Identity

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Yeah, queer is definitely a very versatile term. It can be used as an individual kind of descriptor from like people can use it to describe their own personal identity, but it then it's also that umbrella term for the full community. So I think it's it's a really interesting word that we use in a lot of different ways. And I think what I want to recognize is the word queer being used for the community, that's happening. So there's, you know, people that are upset with that. It's it's like, sorry, that's just the way that that things are going. That's the word we're using now that's being adopted and and reclaimed. But if an individual doesn't want to be called queer on their on a personal level, I think that's really important to respect whatever individual identity they say. If they say I identify as gay, then let's call them gay and let's not call them queer as an individual. So separating out the umbrella versus the individual term, I think is really important.

Brett 32:40

Well, Mike and Kyle from Gayish, I certainly respect everything that you guys have said. I think that you are two of the smartest voices on podcasting. I've enjoyed Gayish throughout the years. In fact, Kyle was telling me, how long has it been on the air?

SPEAKER_05 32:52

We're coming up on our seventh anniversary.

Brett 32:53

Our seventh birthday is next week. Yeah.

unknown 32:56

Wow.

Brett 32:56

Are you going to do anything to mark that occasion or anything like that?

How Gayish Chooses Topics

SPEAKER_06 33:00

We always have a birthday show. I I may or may not have surprises in store. We'll see.

Brett 33:05

Another question that I would like to ask you just about the podcast in general, since I've got you here and I've got you trapped in a in a room. How do you guys come up with the topics? I know sometimes you poll your listeners, but do you always do it that way, or do you kind of like say, hey, this is what I'm interested in this week?

SPEAKER_05 33:20

No, yeah, we sit down and brainstorm and yeah, kind of what we're interested this week, we try to do variations on like topics that are more stereotypically gay, topics that are more stereotypically straight, topics that are a little bit more sexual, topics that are, you know, we try to have a variation of topics when we pick. And then yeah, we also pull listeners and we have a giant list that includes any time someone writes us in and suggests a topic. We have a giant list of topic suggestions. So sometimes we'll use that to get ideas. And we have, even though we've been going for seven years, we have a list of 400 some on ideas. So we have even more episodes in store.

Brett 33:56

Well, I can't wait to see where you guys go next. I'm always surprised every week when I see the topic. I'm always like, what, X-Men? We're talking about X-Men?

unknown 34:06

Okay.

Brett 34:08

And I love the title gay-ish. I wish I would have thought of that because gay-ish voices probably would be a pretty good thing for queer voices. Unfortunately, we have more than a gay identity. We obviously have the entire community underneath us. So I I kind of feel like we're not going to be able to change that queer term because it embraces everybody and hopefully everybody sees the spirit in which it is. But I appreciate you guys' time. I am big fans and can't wait till you guys come back to Houston. You recently were here on a meet and greeted was it Kiki's, I think. Yep. Yep. We were at Kiki in Houston. Yep. Yeah. Well, now you have to come back because we're gonna try to drum up more people in the in the fan base here.

SPEAKER_06 34:49

Well, and I I left the crowd in Houston. I thought just the the the sweetest folks and and really energetic. I I I really, really liked our show in Houston. It was fun.

Brett 34:58

It's because we're prisoners of Trump country, that's why. Thank you.

Meet Alex A Trans Music Teacher

SPEAKER_04 35:07

So this is Ethan Michelle Gans with Queer Voices, and we're gonna talk to a trans man who is a music teacher in Texas and see about his story. Alex, how are you? I'm doing great today. Thanks so much for inviting me to come on and participate. It's I I w I heard about your story, I heard what was going on, and uh I really wanted to give you uh this platform to speak about what's happened to you here in Texas. Um, there's been a lot of anti-trans uh legislation. In fact, we met uh in Austin uh speaking against legislation in 23. Yes, that's correct. So uh I've tried to keep up with you since then um and I saw what you were going through. Tell us a little bit about teaching music here in Texas.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

So I absolutely love teaching music. I love being there for the kids. I love you kind of get the unique opportunity to show kids that they have abilities outside of the things that are tested, outside of like math and reading and science. You get for me at least, when I was in my first music classroom, I found a sense of purpose and I found that I was capable. I was struggling a lot with identity, family, other things. And as soon as someone put an instrument in my hand, I I never forgot that person because they showed me that I had value. And so I went into teaching music. I transitioned while I was teaching. I want to say that the people that I work with are they were extremely kind and understanding. And I wasn't physically pushed out or removed from a building, but the nature of my job, I was split between multiple campuses and also had meetings that were in antiquated buildings, let's say like 60 years old probably, that definitely did not have a neutral option. And as stuff started happening where we'd have performances off campus, and I realized, you know, if I needed to go to the bathroom and not break the law, I had to leave and go to the gas station. And my admin and district were pushing me to take the kids to a state level event and it was in a government building. And I realized that because of who I am, I would never be able to take those kids the places they deserve to go. So I made the incredibly tough decision to step away since I had a very good recommendation, a person that I trusted that was going to be there for the kids. They weren't just gonna be left without music. And at the same time, trans people do a really good job of taking care of each other in Texas. So I was able to find somebody who gave me a really good recommendation. And I got a job in a completely unrelated industry, pretty much doing uh tech uh tech support for a financial company. It's been a journey because it's out of my wheelhouse, but it's my first job where I've had access to gender-affirming care. I've had access to doctors that understand because when I was teaching, the doctors that were in network just were not transinformed. I actually got turned away from doctors and specialists. So now that I'm at this job, it's like for the first time I'm getting treated like a human, if that makes sense. I was my identity as a music teacher was always the most important thing about me. And the state of Texas passing these laws and forcing me to take a step back and really have to think what's best for my students, what's best for my my family. But it's been really devastating, to be honest, but I've had some good support because I am a passable trans person. A lot of my coworkers who started after I transitioned, they just didn't know. The parents, it was a mix of people that knew and that didn't know. But in the past, I've just had some really bad experiences with parents not being understanding, and just you can feel being a trans person in this state. You can feel how heavy the climate is getting. And I felt the water boiling and I realized I needed to get myself out, if that makes sense.

Bathroom Bill And Career Fallout

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Absolutely. That makes perfect sense. So just for the for the listeners, you're discussing the bathroom bill that came into effect. Was it December 8th?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah, it was I think it might have been December 6th. It was something early December, but it's like they spent the entire legislative session. Like I remember when that bill died, I signed my contract to come back. They tried to push it in the original legislative session. And by the time it was time to make the decision to come back or not, it hadn't made it through the pipes. And then they called a special session after this school year had already started and they heard it at again at the same time they heard the flood bill. And so then the penalties, too, like right before it went across the governor's desk and he signed it. If I would have been caught, like quote unquote, using the men's room, it would have been a$25,000 fine to my school district for the first time and$125,000 for each day that they allowed it to continue while schools are just being crunched for money so hard by vouchers and by our governor. It was just just like a perfect storm of things that made it not possible for me to stay.

Passing Privilege And Real Danger

SPEAKER_04 40:07

I understand. I too am a passable uh trans person, you know, which is surprising to me. But everybody who doesn't know me from before, uh, they they think I'm a cis man.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

It's crazy how hormones work because they definitely wouldn't want people like us going to the ladies' room. I'll tell you why it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

I'm sure they did not think of us whenever they were making that bill. They were probably just targeting trans women. Absolutely. Like that that's the thing about trans men. We we a lot of times pass really well and people don't know. And and we us going into the women's restroom, I I mean, I got yelled at like like two years ago by a woman going into the restroom I was leaving. She yelled at me, You're in the wrong restroom. So, you know, I can imagine now, but Yeah, I've been I've been using the men's room for probably four years, and I just you you can tell.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Like once you start seeing that people are getting uncomfortable, you switch. At least that's the trans male, the privilege, or just being a assigned female at birth person who takes testosterone, a lot of the time you just wind up passing with minimal effort, really. And trans women, unfortunately, don't always get that. Testosterone is just such a strong hormone both directions, and people don't understand. We really can't control what we look like. We just want to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

We want the same things as other people. That's true. But they they definitely will not want us in there. But that's what this bill is gonna do. It's gonna put us all in the women's restroom. Exactly. I hope that if that happens, the women that are uncomfortable will get in touch with their, you know, lawmakers and let them know that this is uh not acceptable to them.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

I sure hope so too. But the idea of having to put myself in a situation where I'm just inherently unsafe and where it'll make other people uncomfortable, my world's definitely gotten smaller just because I've been afraid of those situations happening.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

And you have to be careful because you never know who's gonna uh think you're a cis man going into the women's restroom to bother women.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Yeah, that's that's exactly what it is, too. I mean, I'm just I'm just trying like people don't think about it. It's like you have to go, you have to go to a government building to pick up documents like the DPS or something like that. I mean, nobody wants to be there, but it's places we have to be, and every person on this planet has to use the bathroom. So it just it makes daily life so hard and it creates a lot of uncomfortable situations, but it creates dangerous situations, is the main thing.

Finding Gender Affirming Health Care

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Agreed. Agreed. So you like your new uh job, you said, and you're you have access to gender-affirming care. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

I I wound up getting a really good opportunity from a company that's based in a blue state, so they have protections for trans people built into their policies. They have a network of doctors and therapists that they put in their insurance that are informed. This has been the first time where I've gone to the doctor, and me being trans hasn't really been part of the equation since I transitioned, if that makes sense. Where I'm I'm just able to be seen as a person and access basic services.

Leaving Students Without Goodbye

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Well, that's awesome. So, how did the kids take it when you were leaving?

SPEAKER_03 43:14

So you can't really talk about trans identities at school. And anybody who thinks that trans teachers talk about that is just flat out wrong. We're just trying to get our paycheck, be there for our kids. It's just we we happen to be trans. I never talked about it. And in order to make sure that my replacement was in a good spot, I they told me not to say anything to the kids and I didn't. So I actually didn't get to say bye before I left. I've had some parents reach out to me who knew what was going on. I did uh an interview with the guardian and some of the parents picked up on it. But the kids, they showed back up from winter break, and uh my name was off the door, and there was a new teacher there, and they didn't get to say bye to me. Well, that's sad. It is very sad. But I just I wanted to make sure that the program and the kids were okay. I didn't want to hear any controversy like we've seen in Red Hope. There was a trans feature, there was a bomb threat place after she posted a TikTok about how we can supported her. So I just I did not want to bring any of that to my campuses at all. Even though it should have been something I had to think about.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Well I'm sorry you went through that. Um I know that you fight for a right just as much as I do. Um I know that you continue doing that. So I've seen you speaking in legislative committee and everything. So I know that you'll continue to do that.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

I will I've gotten some really cool connections over pretty good. Uh trans one eventually there are people that are waking up and that are seeing what's happening to us and I've seen the numbers for the classes I do to just understand trans people better. I've seen the numbers go up, and I've had a lot of churches and like democratic church reaching out. I mean, I haven't had to make any um like cold call time things in a while on the calendar because people see what's happening and they want to know how to help.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

That's the first time I've really felt that whenever we showed up to think again again children having hair. We showed up 2081 again. We were again. I knew then I knew then that we had we had a lot of people on our side. I mean 2081. We don't remember that.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

You're right. I I did feel it that way too. Like in my local community, I'm feeling it more. I mean, but we all feel it, and it was 2081, and I remember hugging them that I had crazy, and I remember telling them that I would fight for them. We were there for they've had to leave. They're not here anymore.

What People Must Understand Now

SPEAKER_04 45:56

And they fled. And a lot of people I know have fled as well. Is there anything else you want to talk about that you'd like for people to know about that's happening here and I think people just need to know that we're normal people.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Nobody would go on hormones to be treated worse than everybody else if we go on hormones, or even if we transition just socially, it is something that is a necessity. It is taking what we have on the inside, and it is letting you see it on the outside, and it doesn't change anything about who we are. And the treatment that we get is because we show the world who we are. It's it's really brutal. It's been hard for me to see people crumble under the current conditions, and people need to act now, and they need to stand out. They need to be better advocates, and they need to take some responsibility because the person who got my job, the people that get the jobs, the trans people that leave are benefiting from that. So they need to be the one screaming the loudest.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Thank you very much for sharing your story with us. I would I feel very honored that you let me uplift your story like this and share my platform with you. And uh that was Alex, uh music teacher here in Texas. Thank you, Alex, and have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Thank you so much for finally enough love. Enough love. Yeah, I found you.

unknown 50:12

I found it. We live between life and death. Waiting to move on, and in the end, we accept it. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I don't sell I five, I thought, I'm not finally enough to lie, enough to lie, enough to lie.

unknown 52:08

Finally, finally, finally, finally, enough enough to lie.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Someone much kill and com a great mag too much. Oh maybe it is nice.

SPEAKER_09 57:21

Heard on KPFT Houston, and as a podcast, available from several podcasting sources. Check our webpage, queervoices.org, for more information.

Ghost of Glenn 57:33

Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime. This program does not endorse any political views or animal species. Views, opinions, and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent. In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining products.

SPEAKER_09 57:46

For Queer Voices, I'm Glenn Holt,