May 20th - Judy Reeves on Pride and Radio, Tim Stokes on Real-World Money

In this episode, past grand marshal and producer Deborah Moncrief Bell interviews 2026 Disgtinguished Grand Marshal for Pride 2026 Judy Reeves. Judy has been a radio personality on KPFT, a community historian, a theater director, and an activist and friend of QUEER VOICES. Then author R. Lee Ingalls interviews financial expert Tim Stokes on the differences between online and brick-and-mortar banks. 

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HAPPY PRIDE!  

Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here.  Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond.  Check out our socials at:

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Transcript

Pride Fundraiser And Lineup

Brett 0:01

You're listening to Queer Voices, a radio show and podcast that has been an outlet for the LGBTQIA Plus community since the 70s. I am Brett Cullum, and you're going to hear us saying it's that time of year. A lot right about now. Not only is June coming up, which means pride, but KPFT is doing its fundraising campaign, and Queer Voices could use your help. None of us are paid to do this show, it's all volunteer, and in fact, every one of us does a sustaining monthly contribution to the station to keep their lights on. That is how committed we are as the team that produces this show. The station has supported Queer Voices right from the start. So we ask that if you can, head over to KPFT.org and make a contribution. You can do it as a one-time thing, or you can set it up as a monthly recurring payment. On this show, we have a KPFT celebrity, Judy Reeves, who for years did a show on KPFT called After Hours, and she hosted her own show called Fast Hits until just recently. Judy has been named Distinguished Grand Marshal from Pride 365 this year. One of our producers, Deborah Moncrief Bell, interviews her, and Deborah was named a Grand Marshal back in the day, too. After they talk, author R. Lee Ingalls brings in financial expert Tim Stokes to discuss banking online versus at a traditional brick and mortar bank. Remember, if you have a bank account anywhere, you can probably donate to KPFT at KPFT.org. Our executive producer, Brian Flavinka, was also a previous Pride Grand Marshal. As for me, well, I just marched a few times in the parade over the years for various reasons, but I am proud to be a sustaining member of KPFT. So I hope that you enjoy Queer Voices and consider making a donation in our name to keep us on the air. We reach up to 150,000 people every week. Not bad for some LGBTQIA Plus volunteers with a laptop. Queer Voices starts now.

Judy Reeves Pride Reflections

Deborah 2:13

And it's that time of year that we start talking about pride and things that will be happening in June because of the FIFA World Cup being all up in our business here in Houston. Pride was moved up, so it'll be early in the month rather than the latter part of the month as we're used to. We're trying to do our best here at Core Voices to talk with all the people that were selected as Grand Marshal in the class of Pride 2026. With us is Judy Reeves. Judy has been named a distinguished grand marshal, and we're going to let you know why. So, first of all, Judy, you and I are both elders in the community, and we can look back on so many things, things that we shared together, I think, through the years and the work that both of us have done. And certainly your body of work in the community is tremendous. And one of the reasons that you were chosen as a distinguished grand marshal. Distinguished grand marshals are chosen by previous grand marshals. We have a meeting and we talk about who should be honored this way. And it is not voted on by the community. It's this club that we have, and we're like, okay, you can be in our club because you've done the work. Grand Marshals perform ceremonial duties, lead the parade, and serve as Pride ambassadors for Pride Month and throughout the year. So, Judy Reeves, first of all, what does being nominated or actually named to this position mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Well, at first, when I found out, I was in utter shock. I could not believe that there were not a lot of people in line ahead of me. But I have come to listen to my peers and realize that I guess I'm honored. I mean, it's truly an honor. I just couldn't believe that I had enough friends in the world to think of it.

Deborah 4:11

Well, it's your community that's recognizing your work. What are your past experiences with pride? Do you remember your first pride parade?

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yes, actually I do. I was on the sidelines because I'd never been to a parade before. And and then and that's a a misnomer. I had been to the parades before. I hadn't been with my partner, and she wanted to go this year or that year. We went. But we stayed in the background. And I was just excited and thrilled to see the crowds out there and the people and the kids. I was amazed to see that so many children out there. But my lover was committed to being straight. She was a nursing student and she couldn't get out of there fast enough. And I thought, if this is what it's going to be every year, I just can't go. But my second parade was one of distinction because I was with After Hours Radio Show. And so that really was a thrill to be there on the mic and to see all the parade passing by Mary's.

Deborah 5:32

As people go down the parade route, I remember when I was Grand Marshal in '97 that that I was just so tickled at everybody yelling my name and waving and smiling and the in the joy. And of course, that was the year that Jimmy Carper was also Grand Marshal. I love to tell the story about how at one point the uh parade uh stopped and Jimmy uh jumped out of the convertible he was in in front of me and ran around back to me and kissed me. So that was an Yeah, that and that was the first nighttime parade. So it was really really special. It was special because Jimmy was the the my my co-grand marshal that year.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

What does pride mean to you? Well, now that's gone through phases with me. At first, early on when I was a youngster, it was something to be very proud of. It was something to be feared almost because of the police and the raids, but that just spurred me off. So it made me more proud to be queer. And as time went by, it became a habit. I want to be out with my friends. I need to be out with my friends, and whatever consequences there were for that, I was prepared to take them. And then it got to be a battle. I was getting older, and they were talking about moving the parade to downtown, and I was very much against it. Mostly because many of my friends, such as Brian Kiever, did not have transportation, wouldn't be able to get there on a bus, wouldn't be able to get back in time to go to bed safely, and and I was in the same boat. So I fought moving it downtown, and it lost a lot of its oomph for me when it moved downtown like it did. So I never really supported it after that. I didn't talk against it, but I couldn't get downtown to it, and I've never been at a parade downtown before. So this is gonna be a real experience for me. And I have all of my friends gathered trying to make sure I'm safe with this arm and and my service animal and so on. So they're they've rallied around me.

Deborah 7:44

Yes, unfortunately, Judy experienced a fall and and subsequent surgery and is still recovering from that. So I hope we will be much better by the time of the parade. But it but it is uh quite a challenge, especially for uh those of us that are older and I have mobility and lack of energy issues, I should say. And so that is a consideration. I was among those people that was not in support of the parade moving, even though realistically it was gonna happen because it was just the nature of what it is. And so, you know, we had to accept that was the case.

AIDS Memorial Quilt Volunteer Story

Deborah 8:22

Now, among the many things that you have done, you were very involved when the NAMES project came to Houston. Can you tell me a little bit about what you did with that?

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Actually, I was on the service committee of the board, whatever you want to call it. Uh, I was co-chair of volunteers with Bruce Cook. And Bruce Cook suddenly became ill and had to go to the hospital, and I became the the volunteer chairman. It was like, oh my God. But we did end up with 586 volunteers for that. One of the things that made me so proud in that endeavor was it was in 1988 on this particular weekend. Mother's Day was May 8th. I bugged the names people so much because I wanted to know who was gonna be here or whose quilts we were gonna have, whose names we were gonna be reading, because I was determined to do it right. And they finally acquiesced and gave me the list ahead of time. So when we got to the George R. Brown, which we were the first queer people to ever rent, the George R. Brown, we had coordinated it to where names were being read as the quilt was being unfolded, but they were coinciding with each other. And the names were the people whose quilts were being unfolded. And we were the only city on the entire tour who matched up the names with the unfolding. And I was very proud of that. And they even called, I can't think of his name now, they called him down to the ho to the George R. Brown and said, You've got to see this. And he was so excited, he congratulated me.

Deborah 10:09

And uh so that was you excuse me, Judy, you you forgot the name, but who who he, he's the the founder of the quilt. Cleve Jones.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Cleve Jones, yes.

Deborah 10:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Cleve was in the hotel sleeping.

Deborah 10:26

I see.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yes, and his two assistants called him down to the George R. Brown, and he stayed the whole thing. Uh-huh. So um that was one of my crowning glories. So I wanted to honor the people in Houston, especially, with having their names coincide with their piece being unfolded and made public. And so we stood out on the whole tour for that. But not only that, we had so many volunteers, and I knew them all on site, and they knew me by name, and I had so much fun with the volunteers. I forgot to be reverence sometimes. And that made me feel bad. And I finally said something to one of the board members, and they said, No, if you can find cheer and joy in this, do so because these people need to be celebrated. And I'll never forget that. It was it's one of those big things that stood out in my

KPFT Queer Radio And Facets

SPEAKER_03 11:22

life.

Deborah 11:22

Yeah. Well, I remember it well, and I was really impressed with your organizational work. You were a longtime programmer at KPFT with the After Hours program and then Fawcett's. How did you get involved with doing queer radio?

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Buddy Johnston called me one night and he said, I want you to come on the radio and talk about the names project. It's coming up in a few months, and I want you to do a pitch for volunteers. And I went, Okay, I'm not much on the radio. I don't want to talk. He said, Come on, I'll get you talking. And I went and I pitched and I stayed. So that was it. I mean, I stayed to the very bitter end after Buddy had gone and Bruce had gone and Jimmy had become deceased.

Deborah 12:10

So Buddy Johnston started after hours and then uh Jimmy took it over with a a crew of folks, including Judy, and then eventually it trans, I I guess transformed into facets, which you did for several years before you decided that you needed to hang up your headphones.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, Chris Harrison was the producer of After Hours when Jimmy died. He just kind of fell into it, and he didn't exactly follow FCC rules or the law, and so he shut it down rather abruptly. And I got together with many, many friends that week and I presented something to the staff at KPFT on Monday morning, and I said, I want to go into that slot on Saturday night. They laughed at me and said, Well, a girl can't. I said, Excuse me.

Deborah 13:00

No, they didn't. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah. Well, this was I can't remember his name now, but this was an old guy, it was George, I think. And he was funny. He was he was being facetious, but it didn't cover well. So we got to be good friends. And he says, I'll give you three weeks. I said, Okay, I'll take it. And the next Saturday night at 2 a.m., a group of us showed up out in the air and had one of the best shows facets ever had. I said, I didn't want to become, you know, after hours two or you know, n the number two, or TO. I said, I didn't want to fashion my show after after hours. It was not an extension of after hours, it was an extension of gay programming. And I had to put it myself into it. I couldn't emulate anybody else. And I think we did that well.

Deborah 13:54

Yes, you had a good long run. One of your well, you've been involved with so many things with Act Up, with uh Cult 45s, uh and and and and the court system. I mean, you've just you've been out there and doing stuff, and you also have a long history with theater suburbia being a director of plays and and and including the Lar Laramie Project, which was uh presented the 25th anniversary of Matthew Shepherd's death. And then one of your biggest works was with Gulf Coast Archives and Museum, commonly referred to as GCAM.

Archives Work And Saving Marys

Deborah 14:32

And how did that come about and what was your part in it?

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Well, actually, Brandon Wolfe had a listserv, uh handnet, at that point in time. That was before any of these modern groups were formed. Uh, and he sent an email out to the listserv members, and he said, Rainbow said, you know, we have the Museum of Fine Arts, we have this, that, and the other. Where's the gay museum? And Brandon took that bull by the horns and he posted that and said, anyone who's interested in starting a gay museum or even talking about it, be at the Montrose Library at 3 p.m. on Sunday. I think it was in August or September, and we're gonna talk about it. So thirteen of us showed up at the library with Dr. Jim Sears of one institute, who Brandon had invited to talk about museums and their various sizes and shapes. You had to choose a museum type. And he talked to us and we all decided that we wanted a standalone museum. We didn't want to be involved with a college or a bar or a church. And those were the three choices because if if we were involved with a a college or church, we would lose a lot of people. We had a huge atheist population, and we had we wanted to educate children. So if a college was involved, I'm not sure how that would have worked. And a bar certainly wouldn't have worked with kids. So we we wanted to stand alone. And so that's how it happened. And the next week we met, there were 10 of us then, and we elected officers and we started the paperwork, and that's how it was.

Deborah 16:27

So uh Rainbow being Rainbow declowned, Ricky Hurt, and often at the parade, Rainbow would be the one at the end of the parade. Bring up the rear. Yeah, bringing up the rear. The G Cam actually never had a physical location where you could go and view everything. There were things that were kept in storage, there were exhibits that were put together and presented, especially during Pride Month. You started collecting items from throughout the um community. You created and assisted with exhibits at the Contemporary Arts Museum Houston, the Holocaust Museum Houston, the Heritage Society, and the Health Museum, loaning out the G um holdings that included the bar tops from Mary's. And there's kind of a famous story about, you know, Mary's was being demolished, not not the whole building, but what we had known and loved it as. And they essentially were just gonna throw those bar tops away.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Those bar tops were put together, and I have a piece of a bar top that had popped off, snapped off, and it had a date on the back of it, 1980s. So the bar tops were put together with pictures taken before 1980s, and it was a simple decoupage. I mean, people would slap things on there and very carefully, but they would slap things on there and decoupage it, and finally they lacquered it and put it in the bars. It went in as several pieces of plywood. So once they got the pictures on it, they didn't pay any attention to where the edge of the plywood was and so on and so forth. But they had an outside bar and an inside bar. People would go to Mary's and just look at the bar tops because they had friends on the bar tops. And a lot of people died during the AIDS epidemic or on those bar tops. So that was a nostalgic thing to look at. I managed by hook and crook to find the owners of Mary's. And I was sitting in the House of Pies almost daily with the two owners who were not recognizable as owners of Mary's at all, because it was two females, a mother and daughter. And I started to negotiate with them for the bar tops and for anything of savable or of historical. I took them to Mary's. They had permission from the realtor, and we walked through Mary's and they were in awe of everything. Even the liquor was still there. I mean, it hung on the plywood above the bar. I was in awe of that. But the third time we went back, we went to the offices in the back and we found uh farmer's plaque that they had put under his tree when he died. And we found many, many pictures. Explain who that is. Farmer? Fanny Farmer owned Mary's. Now, when you say owned Mary's, Mary's name is what he owned and the cash register. The building remained in the May family and was rented or leased to the different owners of Mary's bar. Okay. Farmer was a very close friend of the May family. And in the building in back of Mary's that held the flower shop and the garage and the storage for all the flowers and the the decorations and things for the bar was actually their home at one time. And when the crash hit, they built the building in front of the property, which became Mary's, as a restaurant when the crash hit for a money-making endeavor for them and to feed some of their neighbors. So when they closed that up, farmer asked, he said, Well, how about if I use the building? And they said, sure. I mean, he actually lived in their house out of town with them. He had his own room. And uh he said, I'd want to open a bar. And they said, fine with us, you know, we're not teetotalers. And he said, a gay bar, and they said, all the better. So that's how Mary's came to be. The May family maintained the ownership of that entire corner. So when people were out there looking for the LLC and people who owned the property, I kind of dropped in the lap of the two owners and they made promises to me. And one of the promises was we got the bar tops. Gem got the bar tops. And I said, I don't know how that's gonna look. I said, Bruce and I had actually gone in and scanned the bar tops in the early 2000s. So we had clear pictures of it. But we had no idea what the configuration of the bar tops were in terms of the plywood seams, et cetera. But it was written into the contract with the realtor that whoever bought the bar or bought the property would relinquish the bar tops to us. And they needed to set up an appointment with us. We'd be at their beck and call, and we would come and cut the bar tops because we didn't want to lose any of the pictures. Well, the community really understated, made Bobby Hugo mad. And he just he just ripped up the bar tops. I mean, he got his people to cut the bar tops and laid them outside. And finally he called me and said, If you want these bar tops, come on. And get him this morning or tomorrow. And it was like, whoa, wait a minute. You know, I have to get trucks and people. And he says, Well, whatever's left here tomorrow afternoon is gonna be gone. I didn't want to put an alert out to the community because everybody was going in and stealing and breaking and destroying things in Mary's at that point. I mean, they even broke the pipes in the bathroom. And I walk drove by one day and water was gushing out from under the front door. And I called the the owners and I said, You need to check on that. People had gone in and broken up the pipes in the bathroom because they were mad because they wouldn't reopen Mary's. It just it was unbelievable the mentality of the people. So anyway, I put a call out to in LA and the Bears, and I got some people over to Tony's corner pocket at eight o'clock in the morning with pickup trucks, and I said, Follow me, boys, and don't tell anybody because I'll have to hurt you. So we loaded him up in numerous pickup trucks and cars, and we took them straight over to Jimmy's house on Dora Street and through the gate into the backyard where it couldn't be seen from the streets because I didn't want to break it into Jimmy's house.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

You know, so we kept them there for quite a while. So So where are the bar tops now?

Deborah 23:22

Where are they stored?

SPEAKER_03 23:23

They are stored in the storage units of Heart of Leather Foundation, which is a renaming of GCAM.

Deborah 23:33

Okay, so G Cam, yeah, uh be be became Heart of Leather. And and and part of that was because you realized just how much of your collection was from the leather community. And you yourself have been involved in in the National Leather Association and in that community. And so that work continues. I think there's going to be an event coming up. You want to tell me about that?

Heart Of Leather Exhibit Preview

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yes. Um, Daddy Gill, Texas Handler 2025, and Kevin Hanby, Mr. Prime Choice 2026, are putting on out of the archives for um Heart of Letter on Sunday, May 31st, 2026, from 2 p.m. to 7 p.m. at the Heights Art Studio and Gallery at 214 East 27th Street. That's Houston 7700 admission.

Deborah 24:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Of course, there's going to be suggested donations. And we've asked people to consider a sponsorship contribution that reflects your commitment to a cultural preservation, education, and community legacy. It's going to be a great exhibit. It's only going to be for a few hours, but Daddy Gill and Kevin Henby have really put their heart and soul into this, and it's going to be an amazing exhibit. The bar tops, you know what? I don't know.

Deborah 24:55

Because they may or may not make an appearance.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

Oh, yeah. Because I haven't been in on all the meetings because of my surgery. So I don't know what's going to be there. But there will be things from the Cult 45s and the the defunct people uh are groups now. The Cult 45s and um Rip uh the misfits and all the groups that are represented now in Houston and surrounding areas. It's gonna be a great exhibit. I do know that. I've seen several things. And the cowboy is coming out of hiding, so I'm very excited about that. But there will be bar tops there. I don't know. There's 15 pieces of bar tops, so I don't know if all the bar tops will be there. But you can come see it, you know.

Deborah 25:44

So you can go on to the Heights Art Gallery and get your history on. Yes. Which is a really important thing to do. And the the fact that it's joined with pride and the rich history that started uh uh for most people in modern times, uh they they think of the stone wall uh uprising as the the kickoff to the modern uh LGBTQIA movement. Now um uh when when G Camp became part of Leather, you've done other work to uh preserve the history and you you've worked with the archives at the University of Houston. You had some materials that had belonged to Jimmy that you made sure got over there.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

I've also worked with Rice University. U of H has a special collections uh and I ended up well, Jimmy purchased the Botz collection from the church.

Deborah 26:44

Okay, the bots collection had belonged at uh uh the Metropolitan Community Church. Yeah. And and I I I can't remember the details except that they were gonna close it down or or something.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

They were willing to sell it to the highest bidder, and when they found out from Jim Sears that there was no higher highest bidder, it was just a collection of history, then they kind of abandoned that and then they started threatening to throw it in the dumpsters because they wanted their gym back. And so Jimmy had me as a liaison talk to them and start negotiating a price because he didn't want to see that. And I finally said, you know what, this has gone on long enough. This is my bottom price, take it or leave it. And they took it. So two 26-foot trucks later, we moved it all out and it went straight into hiding because there was such a furor in the community about that. It's like Judy stole the the yeah, the box. And it's like, no, Judy didn't steal anything, Judy saved it, you know. Exactly. And Jimmy wanted to be incognito, so to speak, and I was the front runner for that. But yes, eventually I put some of Jimmy's stuff with Charles Bott's stuff and gave it to uh the U of H. And actually it put it on the books as a tier one university after that because the collection was so huge. And um, I was very proud of that. It was I cannot I swear to god, I cannot remember the name of it. But it had both Charles Bott's and Jimmy Carper Research Library in the name of it. And that's how it's depicted now at the UH. And I'm very proud of that. So we continue to do that. As you should be.

Deborah 28:37

Yes, as you should be. Well, Judy Reeves, uh distinguished Grand Marshal, 2026 for Houston Pride. Thank you so much for being with us on Queer Voices, and thank you for all the work that you've done that shows just how much you deserve to have received this honor.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Well, I'm very honored to to have received it, and I didn't do the work because I wanted this, I did the work because I loved it, and I still love it. And I love you, Deborah.

Deborah 29:06

And I love you too, Judy. Thanks for being with us on Queer Voices.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

All right, thank you.

Donate To KPFT Reminder

Deborah 29:19

This radio program, Queer Voices, has existed since the 1970s on KPFT. We have this little crew of folks working every week to produce what's no longer unique because we're almost mainstream now, but we're still an important voice that might not otherwise get heard because it's not on that many places. So KPFT is very important to give voices to those who might not otherwise have voices. So as Glenn always says, you participate by listening, but you should also participate by supporting the station. So please go to kpft.org and make your donation right away.

Fintechs Beyond Online Banking

Lee 30:14

Hi everyone, I am R. Lee Ingalls, and today I'm joined again by Tim Stokes, managing director at a consulting firm and financial industry expert. So when I have a question about the financial industry, Tim is the person I go to. He's always been able to discuss my concerns. So, Tim, welcome back.

SPEAKER_08 30:31

Hello, thanks for having me.

Lee 30:33

Yeah, so today we're going to talk about the differences between online banking and brick and mortar banks and why someone would choose one over the other and what those issues might be. So at a at a foundation or basic level, what are the differences?

SPEAKER_08 30:47

So when we when you're saying online banking, all banks have online banking services. We log into Chase or whatever our bank account is. And so that online banking presence is there for all financial institutions. But for some of these other ones, I think what you're talking about are financial technology companies or what we call fintechs. FinTechs are not banks, but they offer consumers, financial products, and services of all different types. There are fintechs that do by now pay later lending. There are fintechs that do payment processing, person-to-person transfers, which we've talked about on previous episodes. So these fintechs can do a lot of other things that banks normally don't do. And there's a lot of reasons for that. But uh the main difference is that you're gonna see fintechs offer products and services that might be a little bit more innovative or maybe a little bit more accessible to certain populations of the uh the industry or consumers. Traditional banking is what it has always been and what we've always known it to be. Now, we'll say some banks are trying to offer some fintech-like products as well. But what we're seeing more of is what we what I call or what we refer to as a kind of a fintech bank partnership, where these fintechs will partner up with banks in order to offer these financial products and services that they do.

Lee 32:06

So um, in in that world, in that realm, what are some of the gotchas, a reason why you should or should not use an online bank or one, we'll call it a fintech for clarity's sake, because uh online bank can be one of the major banks. Absolutely. So let's when we say online, I'm referring to a fintech type bank.

SPEAKER_08 32:27

Right. As far as some of the reasons that people might choose to use fintechs, is gonna be for the different types of products and services they offer. So, for example, a fintech that does buy now pay later lending, which is we've probably all seen that, where um you're online and you can um buy something now but break it up into like four equal monthly installments, right? That is a buy now pay later fintech that's probably offering that and they are partnering up with the bank. The bank is not offering that service, that buy now pay later service, the fintech is, but they are doing it through a partner bank. So I guess the reasons to look at fintechs versus banks is you think about your banks as your typical, I've got my checking account, my savings account, I've got my investment accounts and things with my bank, but maybe I want a buy now pay later loan, or maybe I want to do some sort of different um payment processing or compared to person-to-person or P2P payments. Um, you can do that stuff through fintechs. Uh often offer, you know, very innovative products. So things like um healthcare financing. So if you want to finance elective procedures, you can usually do that through a fintech, any other kind of specialty lending. Sometimes there are fintechs that offer the you know low dollar, you know, loans that are, you know, payday loans kind of in a sense where, you know, things that can help you, you know, stretch your budget from payday to payday. So those are the things that are are different. And I think that fintechs do offer a really valuable service. They they are not a replacement, in my opinion, for traditional banks, but they definitely are a nice kind of augmentation of services to what traditional banking products and services are. Now, all that said, I would be remiss if I didn't say that there are fintechs that do offer just straight up, you know, checking savings, you know, your more traditional products. So that that does exist, but fintechs are really good at at providing sort of these innovative and different and kind of unique non-traditional banking products.

Lee 34:28

So, and uh a question comes up, or in my uh uh research on this, I discovered uh that some of these Fantechs don't actually own uh the regulatory um uh insurance, the FTSE insurance, that kind of thing, that they rely on a partner to do

FDIC Insurance And Partner Banks

Lee 34:44

that. And so can you explain what and why that might be important?

SPEAKER_08 34:48

If you are banking, you know, we'll say we'll use banking as a verb that kind of transcends the bank, you know, itself. And if you're banking with a fintech and you've got money on deposit with them, what's likely happening is that money is in a account with a more traditional bank that is FDIC insured. So you are correct in that, you know, a fintech itself is not directly insured by the FDIC. Uh, and there are different regulatory requirements. But because of the nature of the bank partner relationship that fintechs have with their, we'll call them partner banks or sponsor banks. The nature of the relationship is that is such that the funds that are on deposit are FDIC insured, are ultimately FDIC insured. So consumers are not in any real danger from an FDIC insurance standpoint or the availability of the insurance, whether their money is in a fintech or in a traditional mainstream bank. Oh, and then and the follow-up question I often get with this is like, well, if my money ends up in a traditional bank anyway, then what's the point of putting it in a fintech? And it goes back to those more innovative products and services that the fintech might offer, but the bank doesn't, or the bank only offers it through that fintech partner relationship. So that's that's the benefit. But ultimately, people should um, you know, rest assured that if you've got money on deposit with a reputable fintech that has a strong partner bank or an insured institution that is holding the deposits, that your funds are safe.

Lee 36:24

Yeah, yeah. And I don't want to gloss over an important term that you use, and that is reputable. So you have to do your homework. You have to make sure you understand what that fintech, if you're gonna use one, actually has and does and who they're connected with, if anyone, or do they own the insurance themselves? Um, I also read, and if you will speak to uh a lot of times the fintechs, because they don't have the store fronts, that their fees are less, their minimum balances are less, the overdraft fees, et cetera, all those can be less. And is that the only reason then that you would choose them, or are there other reasons as well?

SPEAKER_08 36:58

No, I think you know, the products and services that fintechs offer are so they they vary wildly. There's so many different things out there. So if you're looking to bank with a fintech, what you just mentioned, right? The fees being less and you know, because there's less overhead and things like that, um, you know, that's definitely a reason. But I think also everyone has, you know, unique financial needs and situations. And I think that there, you know, maybe a specific deposit product out there that lives in a fintech that is really, you know, appealing to you. You know, go go get that product, go enjoy that product, go enjoy that service that is unique to that fintech that's offering it. So it is um, you know, definitely a there's there's a a lot of reasons, I guess, why people would choose to bank with the fintech, but you know, certainly they tend to have lower fees from time to time. Uh, they do not have the infrastructure, as you mentioned. So it's um really uh a lot of different reasons why people would want to enjoy those benefits or you know, utilize those products and services that are available only at you know a fintech versus a traditional bank.

Bad Actors Cybersecurity And Support Gaps

SPEAKER_08 38:02

I do want to jump back just for a moment and revisit something because we've talked previously about the regulatory environment that we're in right now and how you know there's been a there's less focus on supervision and enforcement from the regulators, the banking and financial regulators. And we're still in that environment, of course. So, you know, when we talked about reputable, right? Like the reputable companies, I do want to just mention to the listeners that it's it's very much a be aware situation in this, right? Because with the reduction and focus on supervision and enforcement, we are seeing bad actors come into the marketplace, right? So you've got to be really careful. You know, I saw yesterday a um uh an advertisement for like American financial relief, right? And it very much looked official, right? It very much looked like something that would be government-backed or government-sponsored. And it was only until you got to the very fine front at the very bottom of the webpage where it said, you know, we're not the government. Whereas in previous administrations or previous regimes, we would have consumer watchdogs right on top of that type of stuff and shutting that down and being more aggressive on that. We're in an environment that allows those bad actors to do that a little bit more freely than they have been in the recent past. So I think it is very much a consumers, again, I'll always say consumers need to be very informed and guarded when they're dealing with their financial well-being.

Lee 39:24

Yeah, yeah. Good point. And I appreciate you making that. So another point then is cybersecurity. Uh, that's a huge thing. Uh, we've kind of touched about it in previous segments. Uh, but again, uh just comparing and contrasting the two, what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_08 39:39

So I think that I think they're pretty similar, actually, because at the end of the day, FinTech or bank, or whether it's required by regulation or not, nobody wants to be front page news, right? That's not good for business. So, a really good example is recently two banks got into one of their vendors had a data breach, and a lot of consumer data was compromised at these banks and they are in the news. And so, you know, none of these reputable fintech companies want that. They, you know, that's fad for business. So the data security is taken very seriously in the fintech world. It's taken very seriously in the financial services world in general. That said, bad things happen, but I would say the safeguards are are there uh, you know, as far as being able to have your data and and information protected, whether it's at a fintech or a bank, you're gonna have those protections, I think, um, you know, whether it's required by regulation or not.

Lee 40:34

Very good.

SPEAKER_08 40:34

Thank you.

Lee 40:35

So where would someone go to look for uh uh or look to be safe? How do they know that they're going to be safe? How would they get that information? How can they make their own personal assurances that they're making the right decision?

SPEAKER_08 40:49

You know, it's a it's a great question. And I think we could absolutely do a segment on it. But, you know, I don't know that there, I don't know that there is truly a safe place, you know, because like these banks that just had their data leaked or or the data breached, these are banks that are well established and solid track record of information security and and protecting data. And, you know, we're seeing the proliferation of AI allow bad actors to get really good at obtaining data in a various, you know, a lot of different ways. So I don't know that there's a quote, you know, I don't know there's a safe space, right? There's no place that is foolproof, right? Those days I think are gone. But if you're dealing with a, you know, again, to use the word reputable company, or if you, you know, what I would say, if you're thinking about going into business with a fintech or to obtain a financial service or product from a fintech, you know, I think do your research, find out who their partner banks are. And that's very easy. You can find that very easily. Uh, you know, and if you go to that and you you say, okay, their partner bank is, you know, Chase Bank, right? You know, you're dealing with a very large institution that has a strong track record of, you know, of information security and safety, with the exception of like when hackers win, because every now and then they do, you know, you can find out who that fintech is is partnering with, and you can do research from there and kind of see if they have a good track record of protected consumer information or not.

Lee 42:17

Okay, yeah, yeah. No, good point. Okay, and then one other thing that I've uh discovered through my research is uh it's important to make sure that you understand how easy it is to reach someone should there be a problem uh with one of the fintechs, not not normally a uh brick and mortar bank. They're fairly easy to reach, but the fintechs can be difficult to reach.

SPEAKER_08 42:38

They can be, you know, fintechs do technology really well. Um I will say that. And, you know, but that means that you may very well be chatting with an AI bot, you know, if you are doing chat with someone in their customer service uh department. It may mean that they do not have a 1-800 number for you to call because they they just don't. They do everything either through mail or text messages, email, sorry, email, not email, text messages, uh, you know, push messages or communications within their app. So it can be if for someone who is accustomed to being able to pick up the phone and call 1-800 customer service and and get a person on the other end, you're you're not gonna find that as often in a fintech as you would a more traditional bank. So it can be different. You you would have to do it differently, uh, and maybe different than what you are accustomed to. And it can be difficult. I mean, we have seen fintechs get some regulatory enforcement actions against them for being difficult to reach. Regulators are mindful of the fact that consumers, or at least they used to be mindful of the fact that consumers need to be able to reach the companies that they're doing business with. So it it is important. I'll go back to also like again, nobody wants to be front page news. I used to tell my clients all the time you don't want to be on the front page of a newspaper. And now I say you don't want to be a TikTok reel, you know, of somebody extending. You know, getting on TikTok and talking about how horrible it is to reach your company and how they can't get a hold of anybody, and you know the experience is awful. So there is that built-in safeguard as well from us as consumers. But to your point, yeah, it can, I mean, to answer your question directly, I know I've I've gone all over the place here with it, but it can be more difficult. It will certainly be different from uh freaking border bank.

Lee 44:21

Something you certainly want to understand before you do business with one.

SPEAKER_05 44:24

Yeah. Right.

Lee 44:25

And then another item or topic that I found in my research and may or may not make any difference to our audience, but something that we could at least mention, and that is the Community Reinvestment Act. Are they both responsible for that or no?

SPEAKER_08 44:39

So no. Banks are the Community Reinvestment Act is a law that applies to banks, not to fintechs. So it only applies to banks. Now, we can get into a lot of minutiae here about if the fintech is offering a lending product through a bank, does the bank get what we call CRA credit for that loan? And and in cases, yes. In some cases, no. It it kind of is it is a it depends type answer. But uh, but the CRA itself is a law applicable to banks, not to the fintechs.

Lee 45:11

Okay, okay. So then going through it and and and encapsulating what we've already talked about. So it's important to understand if they're FDIC insured themselves, or they is somebody else that they've uh connected with owning that insurance.

SPEAKER_08 45:25

Right. So fintechs themselves are typically not FDIC insured because they don't have bank charters. So they are partnered with a bank that is FDIC insured. So if they have to all fintechs have bank partners or sponsor banks, and and those banks are FDIC insured, or they should they should be, right? They they should be FDIC insured.

Lee 45:45

Yeah, yeah. So if they're partnered with a bank, then the question becomes who's holding the money? Who's holding your deposits?

SPEAKER_08 45:51

Right. So typically the bank. So it's it's in the the account structuring can get fairly complex. If if the fintech is working with a sponsor bank or a partner bank, then that account is with the sponsor bank. So your that's how your funds do get protected, even if it's at a fintech and not in a bank. So regardless of how the account is structured, whether it's all the money goes into one account, one large account at the sponsor bank, or the sponsor bank holds all the individual accounts as well, and it's just sort of passing through and it's transparent to the consumer. In either case, your funds are FDIC insured. It does definitely go back to if you are gonna take advantage of a product or service with the fintech, you definitely want to make sure you know who their sponsor banks are, who their partner banks are. And and very easily, you know, if you go down to the bottom of the webpage where the fine print is, it will say, you know, it'll say XYZ FinTech is not a bank. We offer our products through XYZ Bank, and and that should tell you who that they are offering their their uh services through. And that is ultimately where your money will be parked.

Lee 46:56

So and then it also uh would benefit us to understand what happens um when there's a dispute.

SPEAKER_08 47:02

When there's like so a dispute we chatted uh a few weeks ago, person-to-person payments or P2P payments. Right. And a lot of times, especially when you're dealing with fintechs, that's what you're dealing with. So you've got to be very careful because you may not have the ability to dispute anything because the money may just be gone. If you are working uh with the fintech and you have a dispute, you will be disputing a transaction directly with them and not with the partner bank. The partner bank is not going to be the one that handles that for you unless caveat, there is some sort of an agreement between the fintech and the partner bank that the partner bank's gonna do it. What I see mostly is that the fintechs want to maintain that customer relationship. So they want to be the one that you're interacting with. They don't want to say, you know, oh, you have a dispute. Um, you're not gonna deal with us, you're gonna deal with our partner bank. So typically you will deal with them. You may also be dealing with the partner bank directly, but not knowing it, right? You may not know it. Uh they may be doing it on behalf of their fintech. So it's just a it's done a lot of different ways. But by and large, I would say if you have a dispute or anything, the transaction that you want to dispute with your the fintech you're you're banking with, you know, you're gonna deal with them and not with the partner

Disputes Fraud Protections And CRA

SPEAKER_08 48:11

bank.

Lee 48:11

Yeah. So I'm gonna put you on the spot again. So are there occasions where uh if you were doing business with a brick and mortar bank, um that a fraud uh uh claim would be um guaranteed. I say once they do their investigation, those funds would be returned, or those funds would be returned until they find out it wasn't fraud and then they'll be pulled back or an advantage for the same situation, um with the same fraud claim, would they be treated differently? Could they be treated differently?

SPEAKER_08 48:43

Well, that's a great question. I think that they could, but when you're dealing with these fraud claims, you're you know, you're referencing their, I would call them like regulation e disputes in in nerd language, um, you know, they are still governed the same way through the bank. So if the bank is doing these transactions, but they're happening through a fintech and a dispute comes through, if they're structured in a way that is like a normal ACH transaction, then they would be subject to the regulation e requirements for resolution. So whether you're dealing with the fintech or whether you're dealing with the bank, you should still have the same protections that you just mentioned, right? You should still be able to get your provisional credit. There still should be an investigation that occurs, and there still should be the final crediting of your account if an error did occur or a fraud is confirmed. So that should still happen. Uh, you know, and and if it doesn't, then you know we have to figure out why that is. If you're dealing maybe in an area where the fintech doesn't know what they're doing, you know, and I've seen this happen before, you know, the fintechs will bundle it. You know, maybe the partner bank is not minding the store, they're not there's not enough oversight. So that that's that stuff can happen, and it does happen, but you know, the protection should still be there. But things can go wrong, right? I mean, things things can go wrong. I in my line of work, I see all the time where fintechs mess up and banks mess up, and you know, these things do happen. So there's always that risk. I I would say there's always that risk. And I would say that the risk is maybe a little higher if you're dealing with fintechs versus, you know, a traditional bank. But to be honest, I you know, I see this regulation get get, you know, messed up a lot.

Lee 50:22

Yeah, yeah. So the net is the consumer really needs to pay attention, understand who they're doing business with, ask some of these important questions. You know, if you don't know for sure that it's a brick-and-mortar type bank, um, and you suspect it might be a fintech to really understand that and who their uh partners are uh better before you just dive in.

SPEAKER_08 50:40

Right. And and you know, and fintechs legally are not allowed to advertise themselves as banks. You know, they can't call themselves a bank. You will see, you know, again, the dis the the disclosures, you know, we are not a bank, right? And and that should be very clear to consumers. You know, and and yeah, it is it it is it goes back to being an informed consumer, making sure that you know where you're putting your money, right? I mean, you know, don't don't uh don't be lured in by you know shiny things and promises of good things and put all your money somewhere where you know you run the risk of losing it or all or some of it. So uh you know, just again, be an informed consumer. Uh and I think it in this era of decreased focus on supervision enforcement, it's very, very important for us as consumers to be educated, to educate ourselves. So yeah, I think that your point is spot on. Just know who you're doing business with. Yeah, yeah.

Lee 51:31

Again, and one last question. I think I know the answer, but I want to make sure that we ask it and I give you an opportunity to respond to it. Are there issues uh that impact our community more than other communities?

SPEAKER_08 51:42

You know, Lee, I think I would say in this case, we're all on the same ground here. You know, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's our community or not. I don't think that there are any specific issues that would impact us that are not impacting anybody else. You know, these are financial products and services, and they're, you know, agnostic to whether you're part of the the LGBTQ community or not, right? So um, you know, it is illegal still as of now for a bank or a fintech or someone to say we're not gonna provide a service to you because you are part of that community. So that is still very much illegal. They cannot do that. Uh so no, I don't think that there's any uh anything outside of what we normally face in the realm of discrimination, uh, potentially that uh that would impact us specifically. Yeah, well, that's what I thought it would be. Well, I appreciate it. Is there anything else that you would like

Be Informed Final Thoughts

SPEAKER_08 52:31

to add? No, I'll just I'll just double down on just be informed. There's a lot of resources out there. Use those resources, use AI. Go get on chat GPT and ask it questions about things. It does really good job sometimes of explaining things a lot better than than any of us can. Use whatever resources you can, just be very careful, be careful about where you put your money. There are a lot of things out there right now, a lot of fintechs, a lot of banks, a lot of products, a lot of services. Just take care of yourself.

Lee 52:58

Yeah, well, I appreciate it. And you too. And I appreciate you joining us today and your willingness to uh share your expertise and kind of clear up those muddy waters of the financial world world.

SPEAKER_08 53:08

Absolutely happy to do it. Thanks, Tim. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 53:12

You can walk you can wear my shoes.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

But maybe you ain't never gonna feel this way You ain't never gonna know me. But I know you singing every day.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

No nigga, no nigga, dig it up, dig it up, and the city.org for more information.

Program Disclaimer And Goodbye

Ghost of Glenn 57:36

Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime. This program does not endorse any political views or animal species. Views, opinions, and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent. In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining products.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

For Queer Voices, I'm Glenn Hope.