Queer Voices
Queer Voices
May 21st 2025 Queer Voices: “The Wiz” Tin Man, Lesbian author Patricia Grayhall and review of “Mid Century Modern”
Brett Cullum has a conversation with D. Jerome, who was recently starring as the TIN MAN in a Hobby Center production of THE WIZ.
Deborah Moncreffe Bell talks with openly lesbian author Patricia Grayhall about her new book "A Place for Us"
Brett and his husband Lee Ingalls review the Hulu series MID-CENTURY MODERN.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
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Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast version of a broadcast radio show that's been on the air in Houston, Texas, for several decades. Brett Cullum has a conversation with Dee Jerome, who was recently starring as the Tin man in a Hoppy Center production of the Wiz. Debra Moncrief-Bell talks with openly lesbian author Patricia Grayhall about her new book A Place for Us.
Speaker 2:A Place for Us, which is a novel, is inspired by Linda, my partner, and my struggle to find a country where we could legally live together before marriage equality. So the novel blurs the boundaries between truth and fiction to connect the characters' experience to broader social and political themes.
Speaker 1:Brett and his husband Lee Ingalls review the Hulu series Mid-Century Modern, and we have news. Wrap from this Way Out Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 3:D Jerome is coming to Houston to perform in the Wiz at the Hobby Center. It's going to run from April 29th through May 4th. He will be playing the 10 man. Now this show has been reinvented on Broadway and this is the first tour of this revival. So D Jerome is originally from North Carolina. He's described as a formidable triple threat and a lot of his past shows indicate that. So hey there, deezer Rome, how are you? I'm so well. How's it going?
Speaker 4:It is good, so happy to be here.
Speaker 3:I am happy to have you. You know what the Wiz it is like, this cultural phenomenon. I remember I am old enough to remember when it first came out I was a kid but I still remember it and people were just crazy for this musical. Why do you think that the whiz is so important? I mean, what is it about this material that just keeps it going and going and going?
Speaker 4:I don't know.
Speaker 4:I guess I could say this, Brent I think people love the idea of being something that will withstand time. I think people like legacy. People love to remember what it felt like when there was a demand for this cultural shift and just to feel the vibration of things changing and, you know, almost sort of a renaissance. So I think 50 years ago the Wiz came at a time where Black voices maybe weren't really elevated and even in that time, looking at the iterations that the Wiz had, there were a lot of things like in terms of I see ballroom scene in there as well. So it's kind of like I think people were hungry for maybe a new look, a new culture, a new feeling, a new vibration, and I think the story of joy and community is what people love to see, and I think that that's why the legacy of the Wiz is so important the music, Charlie Small's choreography, the staging, everything about it. So yeah, I think people love to see legacy and we love to see things be modernized and keep having an effect on our communities.
Speaker 3:What do you think is different about this version of the Wiz? I mean, when you approach it as an artist, what do you see as the thing that makes it unique?
Speaker 4:So I've done the Wiz before and this iteration of the Wiz is so special to me and I think because I was able to use so much of my personal background to infuse into the character. This particular Tin man has some hip-hop chops, so you know I'm a dancer as well. I started at the School of the Arts in North Carolina and my passion grew from there. This Tin man gets to sing. He has two songs, he has one classic number, slide Some Oil To Me, and so what I like about this version is that it's a little bit more. You know, I see how the music was influenced by Al and Renee and then how our orchestration's master, joseph Dubert, was able to kind of twerk that music and make it still sound classic to the original, but giving it a modern pull. So this production I love the fact that it's modern and that it can I think the approach will really connect with all generations.
Speaker 3:Well, I always have to ask you this what's your favorite song in the show? It doesn't have to be yours, but you know my favorite song in the show is.
Speaker 4:So you Wanted to Meet the Wizard. I love the song. I keep saying I'm going to add it to my book, just because I love the way it sounds. And to be able to work with the incomparable Andre De Shields during my my time working with George Faison in the 40th revival in New York city, that was just. It's just unmatched to see him do it. And then so now it's like my favorite song and it's it's the one that I secretly want to do. But I'll never let the whiz know, because I love my whiz yeah.
Speaker 3:Love to you.
Speaker 4:Alan.
Speaker 3:Are you familiar at all with the original, the movie adaptation? Yes, okay, absolutely so. So obviously, nipsey Russell he was the he was the tin man. Are you doing anything to salute him or give him a shout out or anything like that?
Speaker 4:Well, no, you know, in in the moments there's a moment in what would I do if I could feel and what I remember about his iteration, because it happens before slides of oil in the film, so they reversed actually.
Speaker 4:And when I think about him talking about what if he could feel, and when I think about him talking about what if he could feel, I remember his hands and how his nails were like nails, true nails, and so now I kind of get my nails painted so I can have a little bit of inspiration there, because I wanted to look like broken nails.
Speaker 4:But during the song there's a line that I say and just to think the time I could spend being vulnerable again and I kind of fold my hands out. If I'm tapped in enough, I'll fold them forward. And I just remember a part of his choreography where he had his hands and his arms kind of exposed forward, and so that's my ode to him. And then I just love the classic number itself and so I had to work a little bit to make it a little more modern, because I'm like I love the jazz, I love how it sits and how I love the sheet music, but sometimes we get we get a chance to make it new, so it's been really fun thinking about him during this process.
Speaker 3:Well, it's very cool Cause you've got kind of like in your voice a little bit. I can hear a little bit of Nipsey there, yeah.
Speaker 4:He's a raspy sultry guy little bit of nipsey there.
Speaker 3:Uh yeah, he's a raspy sultry guy yeah, he's raspy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right on there. Yeah, I'm wondering how. And? And then I think I just kind of resemble tiger aims, who played the tin man on broadway. So I just like I feel like we're both kind of chocolate skin and high cheekbones, so it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3:I'm like I'm kind of using their definitely standing on their shoulders, yeah well, speaking of the original cast of the Wiz, the movie version in 2022,. You were in the original MJ on Broadway, the Michael Jackson musical.
Speaker 4:What the heck was that like, yeah, you know they opened and I was able to join the company Wow, it's been, it's been insane. You know, I give all glory to God and you know, and the fact that I put the work and the time into so being a part of MJ, that was extremely crazy. I went in for a call with working for Amazon at the time. Well, they, they saw me in an audition dance and the funny part is this you know, and if anybody can take anything away from this, if you're in this industry and you're going to an audition, you know, don't, don't regret not taking something with you. So, like, make sure, if you know you need to dress shoes, or if you need that shoes or you need something else, half of the battle is preparedness. And so at the audition, I dance. You've been hit by you. You know we had to do it and if I didn't watch the video tutorial before that audition, I wouldn't have been prepared. So I'll get off of that, but, yes, be prepared. So I had my jazz shoes and it was great. So after that, I joined the company and it was just a surreal experience. It was so nostalgic to me.
Speaker 4:I started in middle school and my middle school teacher, miss Grady Smith, had us dance to the Jackson 5. And so that's literally one of my very first experiences in dance. And so to join the Broadway cast of MJ the Musical was surreal. I was like I'm actually doing a show where it's like I'm working with one of the fiercest artists to ever walk this planet and I get to go on stage and I get to live my childhood dream. I used to always say my mom could dance for Michael Jackson, because that's I know, I got my dancing ability from her. She was just an incredible dancer from the videos that I saw back in the day. And so I was, you know, joining that company. I, I can't, I could never replace that experience.
Speaker 3:So I think every kid wanted to be Michael Jackson. At some point I learned to moonwalk. I mean, I was like all into it. Yeah for sure, I don't think I'm going to be doing this.
Speaker 4:Hey, come on, everybody can do it in their living room and all we need is a little ai now and you can work it out I gotcha you also toured with hamilton.
Speaker 3:I mean, you're like this pop culture devo. What shows or roles would you love to do next after you do this 10 man stint?
Speaker 4:oh, that's. That question has really been coming up a lot and I believe a lot and you know, I believe a lot in manifestation and what you say. You know the law of attraction in the universe hears you. Now, funny story I was really kind of between two because I had already booked something that I really wanted to do and a director I wanted to work with, but then Hamilton came at the time that it did and I joined the company and it was an incredible experience, an incredible story.
Speaker 4:I still can't believe that I was a member of the Angelica tour of Hamilton, the music. I mean. You know I don't take it lightly. A lot of people think like, oh my God, you't take it lightly. A lot of people think like, oh my god, you always take it lightly. I take my work seriously, my craft seriously, so I deserve to be in any room that I'm in, but it's still surreal when you're like yo, this is a phenomenon, this is a cultural awakening.
Speaker 4:When Hamilton came around, the characters I'd love to play now, definitely I'm not going to back down off of that. I think I could play an awesome Hamilton. I think Aaron Burr is in the stars there. I would really love to play, although he talks a lot. I love Lafayette Jefferson. I think that that is the role that would kind of capture all of the nuances of who I could be in those two particular characters. But we'll see what happens and I'm open. Hmm, what else is on Broadway that I'd be interested in playing? There's a Simba out there. I actually went in for what's his name. In Chicago I actually went in for Billy Flynn. Well, I went in and then I got a packet for Billy Flynn. I sent the whole packet in, heard nothing back. We'll see. It just would be amazing to have a young, dark-skinned Billy Flynn with locks up here still giving him class, giving him sophistication and just a suave finesse.
Speaker 3:I think I'd really enjoy doing Billyy flynn that would be amazing because, you know, usually usually billy flynn just stands there and doesn't move while everyone dances around him so it'd be crazy because I think it'd elevate me.
Speaker 4:You know I love movement, but people know that everything is movement. You know just how we communicate in our body language, and so I'm loving this tin man and how he gets to. You know just how we communicate in our body language, and so I'm loving this Tin man and how he gets to. You know, settle into his body, because he literally needs people to up and move, and so what does it look like, from going to being stiff and not able to move and then gaining the mobility back again. How do you tell that story of actually coming alive? So it's fun. I'm having a good time.
Speaker 3:It sounds like a good time. I mean, the Wiz is going to be playing Hobby Center in April 29th through May 4th, so we're all super excited about it. I can't tell you how popular Oz is right now, between Wicked and everything else, and now this.
Speaker 4:So ready to come to, so ready for Houston.
Speaker 3:It's going to be Ready.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and my birthday is on the 25th, and so I'm literally coming in. I'm hoping to throw opening night birthday bash. Hopefully we can make it work. But I'm really excited yeah.
Speaker 3:So you're bringing the Taurus energy? Is that what you're saying? I'm bringing the.
Speaker 4:Taurus energy, but the thing about it is that it's a Taurus, you know I love my Aries feel, because I'm April, you know, and I also like my Virgo moon, you know. So I really have. I'm about business, but I really enjoy having a good time and really connecting with beautiful people, knowing that relationships are the source of, you know, our community and so building relationships and actually, you know, showing each other that we see you like I, I admonish and admire your work and the things that you're doing to help support, you know, a better community. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you. That's what it totally explains why you're a triple threat right there. All right, well, thank you so much.
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Speaker 7:Patricia Grayhall joined us a few years ago when she was talking about her memoir Making the Rounds. The story of a woman who entered the medical profession at a time when it was still fairly rare for women to become physicians, and the story of her journey through that and her acceptance of herself as a lesbian is beautifully written in that book. But this time Patricia joins us to talk about a novel A Place for Us. Patricia, welcome back to Queer Voices.
Speaker 2:Thank you, debra, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 7:This book. It is fiction, it is a novel, but I think you have woven some autobiographical things into it, because how can you not?
Speaker 2:Exactly so. All writers draw from their own lives, and A Place for Us, which is a novel, is inspired by Linda, my partner, and my struggle to find a country where we could legally live together before marriage equality. So the novel blurs the boundaries between truth and fiction to connect the characters' experience to broader social and political themes.
Speaker 7:And so the characters are not me and not Linda and much of the story is fictional, but the initial meeting and the immigration story closely tracks our real life experience. So negative towards those of us who identify as LGBT, for women and certainly for immigrants, mostly if they're immigrants whose skin color is darker, a lot of people here have said oh, I'm going to leave, I'm going to go to another country. And what I learned really quickly from reading your book was it's not that easy.
Speaker 2:No, it definitely is not that easy, and you're right. We live in interesting times right now, you say euphemistically. Same-sex relationships have only been recognized for immigration in the United States for a decade, and currently we're sliding backwards with regard to LGBTQ rights. And it wouldn't surprise me to discover that same-sex applicants for US visas or immigration status are given greater scrutiny now and with more roadblocks to obtaining permanent residence status or citizenship under the current administration. So at the end of my book I give some resources for LGBTQ people facing barriers to US immigration.
Speaker 2:But you asked about immigrating to other countries, and it definitely is not that easy although it's a little bit easier now to immigrate to Canada, which is where we ended up when we first got together in 2003. And in 2002, in Canada, same-sex partners became eligible to apply for family class sponsorship programs, were able to immigrate as same-sex partners, either under common law or conjugial partner status, and the only problem with that is that you had to have either lived together for a year or show that you had close ties, that you supported each other financially. You had to get all these letters from family and friends and of course, that would be very difficult for couples coming from countries where same-sex relationships are illegal and in which their lives might be at stakes. Even that is a little difficult.
Speaker 7:There's also requirements having to do with your age.
Speaker 2:In Canada. There's different categories of ways that you can immigrate. One of the most common is as a federal skilled worker. Ways that you can immigrate One of the most common is as a federal skilled worker. That's dependent on your age, language ability, your education, your skills. There are different categories. For example, if Canada needs more medical doctors which they do they would have a category for that. Or more veterinarians, or more tradespeople, more electricians, more farmers. You can apply for the Express Federal Skilled Workers Program under these different categories, but it's still hard and it takes a long time and there's a lot of documentation required. It certainly helps if you can speak English and French, but it was worth it.
Speaker 2:Both Linda and I became Canadian citizens in 2016. That was at the time Obama was still president and I had my head in the sand. I said to my partner why don't we just stay in the US? It's so much better now. She said absolutely not. Trump is going to be elected. And I said, no way. It's never going to happen. But I followed her advice and we did get our citizenship in March of 2016.
Speaker 7:When the book opens, jo, who is an environmental attorney based in Washington DC, and Lauren, who is from Britain, meet in a pub while Jo is there visiting, and I think she went there for a year to study or something.
Speaker 2:So Jo's an environmental attorney and she's going to a conference. And yeah, it was very short. Actually she was only in London overnight. During that overnight visit she went to a pub where she met Lauren, and Lauren, as it turns out, was on her way to New York the following day. So they just had this very brief experience. It was actually Lauren's first experience with a woman and then they go their separate ways.
Speaker 2:Lauren goes to New York for her week and a half visit, joe goes off to Paris for her conference. Then circumstances arise where joe cuts her planned vacation short and goes back to london in hopes of seeing lauren again during her remaining vacation, and lauren stays in new york hoping to encounter joe when she returns from her conference. So the ships are passing in the night and they miss each other until the final day or two of joe's stay in london, when finally lauren despondently gives up and comes home and there and there is joe waiting for her. So they have a little bit of time together. And then they have an additional visit in the united states. That was was 1981, and at that time the barriers to immigration were far worse. I mean there wasn't a Canadian option. There's no way Joe could sponsor Lauren to come to the US. Their love was thwarted at that time.
Speaker 7:They both continue their lives.
Speaker 2:Joe ends up in San Francisco Bay Area, lauren ends up in Paris and with other partners 22 years later, both women are trapped in unhappy relationships, but they still are haunted by the memory of their lost love. Lost love. And then, when Lauren unexpectedly arrives at Joe's San Francisco doorstep with her French partner, joe, and Lauren's chemistry erupts with even greater intensity than before. Finally, when they go on a vacation to Yosemite, they surrender to a passion that has only grown stronger with time. But they have to navigate the wreckage of their current lives and relationships and face painful truths they've avoided for decades. And of course, then they have their most daunting challenge yet, in a world that refuses to recognize them as a couple. How can they possibly build a life together when no country will grant them sanctuary as a couple?
Speaker 7:And if you're going to do something like that, then by golly do it on a camping trip, yeah.
Speaker 2:That whole episode is. There's a very explosive scene that happens on that trip, which is one of the more dynamic scenes in the book.
Speaker 7:In what ways does this mirror your own life? Were you and your partner? Did you meet young and then reconnect later?
Speaker 2:Part one of the book, which is the meeting in London in the subsequent several weeks. All of that mirrors our experience very closely the immigration part it tracks our experience almost exactly. Dramatic scenes and other parts of the book are there basically for me to explore other issues that are relevant to LGBTQ life. I have them struggling with ex-partner abuse and things like honesty and commitment and old patterns and things Things that I think are relevant to queer people today. So that part I think I made up just to make it have more relevance to queer lives, I guess.
Speaker 7:Yeah, so explores issues within relationships and how we navigate or negotiate with one another, sometimes facing painful realities, even if we're not necessarily happy. We hate to give up. It feels like you've lost somehow if you give up on something, even though it may in fact, be toxic. I thought that was really interesting. I found the whole idea of being in that situation and then how you would go about making the decisions, and I was like, oh my gosh, they found a way to be together. There is a place for us. So you found a beautiful house in British Columbia, found a beautiful house in British Columbia. You both had professions that allowed you to be there and then, of course, now you're retired. In your experience as a writer and exploring lesbian themes, you had your own life to use and the experiences in your first book, making the Rounds. Then, in A Place for Us, you have a wider range of characters.
Speaker 2:There's a larger ensemble of In my first novel, making the Rounds. Of course it was based on real life so I couldn't really deviate from that. It's essentially a coming-of-age memoir, when I was thrashing around trying to figure out what I wanted in a love relationship and really during a specific era that had its own challenges, and trying to integrate that with a really demanding career. It had a larger ensemble of characters because it covered a greater period of time and different themes. Just a lot of the book was about determination and resilience to overcome barrier after barrier. It wasn't a romance exactly, even though there was plenty of romance in it, but it didn't follow the structure of romance novel with a happy ending, whereas A Place for Us does. In fact, in real life we did have a happy ending and we did end up in Canada. We did buy a house. I had readers after they read Making the Rounds. They wanted to know. So what happened? So what happened after that? I just didn't think.
Speaker 2:I had another memoir in me, greta Kammermeyer, who you may know, who wrote Serving in Silence. She said you know, you have to write a sequel to this, to Making the Rounds. And I said no, I'm not, I just can't. But I could write autofiction which allowed me to maintain some privacy but at the same time draw on the rich trove of experiences I've had in my 75 years of life. Let me just say that the advantage of being 75 is that I've lived a lot, made many mistakes, learned from them and I have a rich trove of experiences to draw on. So autofiction is great, both for this novel Place for Us. And then I just finished a thriller which also features Joe the environmental attorney, and that's also based on a real life experience of a physician colleague who was arrested for bank robbery.
Speaker 7:Well, now that's intriguing. Patricia Grayhall, in her second career from physician to writer, author of now, two books. Am I wrong in thinking this, that you and Linda wrote a book together?
Speaker 2:We did. When I was writing Making the Rounds I was sitting there, my computer, with my back to her, writing about my old girlfriends and understandably she didn't like that. So I suggested, in self-defense, that we write a book together. She had never written a book before, but we had a great time because we'd sit there, you know, at happy hour, we'd talk about the plot and each go back and write a little bit and we'd come back and talk about it again and integrate it and we ended up with a novel called Golden Years and Silver Linings that features two 60-something women who met early on in their 20s but didn't work out. One married, had several kids, and then they meet much, much later on the golf course in Palm Springs and sparks fly again.
Speaker 2:But life is very complicated with their adult children and it's a romance, so it has a happy ending. So what was interesting about that? Whereas Making the Rounds and A Place for Us is with a publisher, now distributed by Simon Schuster, so it has a wide distribution, this little romance novel that we wrote together I self-published with no publicity, and it basically has continued to rock on. I mean, every day when I look at my Amazon author page, I see that people are reading it, which surprises me. Happily surprises me. I've gotten feedback from older readers who said thank God, you know you wrote a romance featuring older lesbians.
Speaker 7:I have often thought that in some of the novels that I've read, it's everything from teenagers to early 20s, and it's like wait a minute. There's life after that and, thank goodness, people do find love in later years. Patricia Grayhall, thank you for sharing your stories with us. They are available wherever one would find books. I look forward to the next one, that thriller books.
Speaker 2:I look forward to the next one, that thriller. I will probably give you a chance to read it very soon because it's almost finished.
Speaker 7:Thanks for being with us on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1:This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9 FM Huntsville, and worldwide on the internet at kpftorg.
Speaker 6:Hi, I'm Cleve Jones and you are forming and participating in the LGBTQ plus community as you listen to this program. This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 3:Today we're going to do a little bit different, because we're going to talk about a show that I think everybody's watching. It's called Mid-Century Modern. It's a show that premiered on Hulu last Friday and, lee, if you want to tell us what's the show's premise, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:So, exactly as you said, everybody's talking about it. We're going to add our voice to it. So the show's premise is about three gay best friends of a certain age, jerry Arthur and the improbably named Bunny Schneiderman. After an unexpected death, they move into a Palm Springs house Living with a wealthiest friend's mother, sybil, played by Linda Lavin. They navigate their golden years as a chosen family, supporting each other through life's challenges.
Speaker 3:And it stars obviously Nathan Lane, Matt Bomer, Linda Lavin and Nathan Lee Graham, kind of all together. Linda got a little bit of a heavier billing than Nathan because he's a little bit less well-known. Yeah, it kind of marked Linda Lavin's last TV role, which is really sad. Did you watch her on Alice?
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. So I saw her on Alice and that's kind of where the world or we were introduced to her and her talents. So, yeah, I was so sad to see that she passed and she did such a great job in this series so far.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, We've only watched about half of it, so don't expect us to know everything, but she passed away after only completing seven episodes and there are ten of them out there. But after her death they did some re-editing and things like that so that her scenes from a fourth episode would instead be used in an eighth, and they kind of made it so that it works as a season one arc and so we're kind of booking it Like you mentioned. It starts with a funeral for one of their friends and then probably going to end with one for Sybil, the mother character. So kind of sad. The whole show was created by Matt Muchnick and David Kohan, who you would know as the creators of, basically, Will and Grace, and the executive producer and the guy that really kind of made all of this happen is Ryan Murphy. Last Friday, March 28th. So the first season.
Speaker 5:like you said, 10 episodes were released simultaneously. It's reminiscent of the Golden Girls in Hot in Cleveland, so highlighting the humor, themes of friendships and romance without age limits.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the Golden Girls was interesting because when it debuted they had never had a show about women of a certain age. And when we say of a certain age, the Golden Girls were supposed to be in their 50s when they started, which I find really crazy. We went back and watched the original pilot and the second episode of Golden Girls to get a feel for it again, because this feels like Golden Girls and it kind of is in a way, isn't it it?
Speaker 5:is. Yeah. So you know, you're exactly right. Just to kind of get a sense of it, because that's what everybody was comparing it to, we wanted to do an actual comparison. What does you know? What does the two of them look like and how are they similar and how are they different? So yeah, the premise of the show in the first episode is pretty much exactly the same. It in the first episode is pretty much exactly the same. It's, you know, they're all moving into the one house and there's a fear of loss because of some event that takes place during that that they might not actually be able to stay, and then, of course, in the end they do so very, very similar that way. But you're right, the age of the actresses in Golden Girls you know. Even now, when I watch it, they seem much older than in their 50s.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's just the styling of them? Do you think if they gave them better hair or something like that, I don't know they would look younger?
Speaker 5:I think they did it on purpose. They tried to make them look older, seem older, to kind of get that whole. You know, after the large part of your life has passed now these are your twilight years. So I think they did that on purpose.
Speaker 3:I was a little bit taken aback by having Matt Bomer in there as somebody that would be considered a golden girl in the gay world. I mean, matt's like a little bit younger than me. I mean actually I don't know, I don't want to say how many years.
Speaker 5:I don't think the characters line up exactly the way that they did in Golden Girls. I think they have kind of the same thing. So if I were to match him to one, it would obviously be Rose Nyland, because the pretty kind of ditzy one. That's where I would line it up. But the age is certainly different. He's playing a younger person. That's still very much a part of his fun years or adventurous years.
Speaker 3:Well, they indicate in the show that there's a backstory for him, that he's a Mormon, an ex-Mormon, and he was supposedly savagely outed by something and even has a daughter which they bring up in the show and things like that. So kind of interesting. But yes, you're right, he is obviously Rose Nyland, because, oh my gosh, they make him so ditzy. And I thought what was interesting is that Nathan Lane's character, bunny Schneiderman, is Blanche. I mean, he's the one that's like sexually kind of aggressive and active and he's the one that's going on all the sites and all the dates. And it's kind of a little surprise because I would have expected Matt to kind of have that kind of sex, starved kind of guy or whatever. And then would you agree that Art feels like Dorothy? I mean, is that where we're landing on these?
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I guess. So Very conservative, very methodical and has a great taste in clothing. That's his history. So yeah, I would totally agree with that.
Speaker 3:Well, they make a really interesting trio, of course and of course adding Linda Lavin to the mix is just a genius stroke, but they do have some paths together. I think Bomer and Nathan Lane both worked with Ryan Murphy before Bomer did American Horror Story and Nathan Lane worked with Ryan Murphy on Monsters or the Menendez Brothers series, and I think that they were all friends of Ryan Murphy. I was not familiar with Nathan Lee Graham who plays Arthur. I mean, he was a side villain in Zoolander and he's been on stage quite a bit. I think he was in one of the original casts of Priscilla on Broadway. He seems to be more stage-oriented than he is TV and film. I haven't really seen him a bit. I think he was in one of the original cast of Priscilla on Broadway. He seems to be more stage-oriented than he is TV and film. I haven't really seen him a lot.
Speaker 5:I was less familiar with him, I don't remember seeing him very frequently, but his cast, his character, is perfect for this role. He seems to be perfect for it. He's delivering it really well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true, but it is, I don't know. Do you feel like that when you contrast Golden Girls with mid-century modern? What is your take on that?
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I think it's a fresh take on the Golden Girls' success and formula for today's audience. So, yeah, I think it's very much needed. Welcome I've enjoyed all the episodes. It took me a minute to get used to seeing Matt Bomer out of his more serious roles and one that's more campy and certainly over the top gay. But yeah, no, it worked.
Speaker 3:Well, he even said in a bunch of interviews that he had done so many heavy roles here lately between boys in the band, fellow travelers, things like that, that he wanted to kind of explore his kind of silly, goofy side, I guess.
Speaker 5:It took me a couple of episodes to get used to seeing him and his delivery that way, but, like I said, it works. He's doing a great job.
Speaker 3:Well, when you look at this contrast with Golden Girls I mean I think Golden Girls felt this feels like a reboot of it, almost so it already is diminished by not being quite as smart as the Golden Girls I feel like yeah, yeah, and Susan Harris was just a genius and they packed in joke after joke after joke in that show and they just never let up. And I feel like Midsommar Dreamwater maybe doesn't have that intensity of just one-liner after one-liner after one-liner and the things. And it is taking me some time to get used to their characters because they feel like they're created with a very broad stroke. It's very much a traditional sitcom. They even have a laugh track, which I found really weird. I haven't heard one of those in years, have you?
Speaker 5:No, no, I haven't. Yeah, very much so. To set the stage for a stage delivery of the show, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Well, they used to be recorded in front of live studio audiences and then they supplemented them with laugh tracks and things like that too, if they didn't get the reaction they wanted. I think so. It's weird to hear that again and I don't know if this younger generation gays of a certain age younger will actually get what the reference is with that laugh track and stuff. It does seem designed to be immediately nostalgia. I mean, do you think that it's going to register with younger people but of course, golden Girls kind of did, I guess.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I think it will. I mean, I think it's so much a part of that particular genre within the entertainment industry that, yeah, I think it'd be accepted well and we have to address one of the elephants in the room is that everybody's calling it the gay golden girls.
Speaker 3:But I've seen nathan lane say on several interviews and I agree entirely you do not have to make a gay golden girls, because there already is a gay show and it was the golden girls. Yeah, they really were kind of gay in a lot of the topics. They chose A lot of the allegories of just having three single women living together. I mean they were doing that and the spoiler alert is that their staff writers were pretty much all gay guys. I mean, they really made them their voices kind of.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I can't tell you how many times we go to a costume event where there is no theme that there is a group of guys that come in there as the Golden Girls. So we've seen it over and over on TV and now in our personal life as well.
Speaker 3:Well, how do you feel about the fact that now we're both in the age range where we could be Golden girls or mid-century modern people?
Speaker 5:I hate to say it, but I think I'm actually older than what Sophia was supposed to be in the original.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't think so. I think that Sophia was supposed to be Dorothy's mom, right? If Dorothy's in her mid-50s, then Sophia's probably in her 80s, around my age. Well, she's north of you, let's put it that way. So another major question If you were a golden girl from the original sitcom series, would you be Blanche, dorothy Rose or Sophia? Which one would you think that they would cast you? As Me it would definitely be Sophia.
Speaker 5:Sophia, why? First of all, I meet? Why, yes, well, first of all I meet the age requirement. Secondly, I can think of all these things but I just can't think of the words that go with them. So I stumble in coming up with the right words and I know who the actor is, but I can't tell you what their name is by telling you all the shows they were in. So there's those Swiss cheese kind of gaps in my knowledge. So, yeah, it would totally be Sophia.
Speaker 3:I would say the only thing that reminds me of Sophia with you is the bluntness of Sophia.
Speaker 3:It's kind of established in the pilot that she had a stroke and she doesn't think before she speaks. So she speaks the truth a lot and you definitely do have a bluntness about you, but I don't think that you're the stereotypical age range for that. But I think that my horror as I age is that I always thought, oh yeah, sure, I'm going to be the Dorothy, I'm going to be the Bea Arthur one, but I think that I'm actually probably more the Rose. I think I'm way too shiny, happy with people and things like that, and I think I'm a little bit more blonde, if you want to say it, things like that, and I think I'm a little bit more blonde, if you want to say it, than you. Sometimes, I don't know, I feel like I'm gravitating towards that Rose thing, which is interesting because it was a Betty White character, obviously, and I never thought of myself as that.
Speaker 5:I can kind of see that you do have a wealth of knowledge. So if I need to know something or if we're going to play Tribble to Pursuit, I'm going to be on your team. However, yeah, I do see that again, the gaps there sometimes.
Speaker 3:Well, of course we're beating the dead horse that is the Golden Girls. I mean, how can you not talk about them when you look at this show, because my gosh, it's so close? Yes, I mean, it really truly is, and I I think in the media they're really arguing about who is who you know. Obviously, but I, I gave you my take. I I think that definitely the matt bomer character is more of the rose and nathan lane is more of the blanche and arthur is more of the dorothy and obviously that leaves linda lavin, sybil, to be sofia. So if you were in this show, who do you think you?
Speaker 5:would be. I would be Nathan Lee, nathan Lane. No, nathan Lee.
Speaker 3:Oh, nathan Lee, yeah, graham, oh, nathan Lee, graham, duh, yeah, I was like pushing you into Nathan Lane, so you would be Nathan Lee For sure. That's kind of strange, because I think I would be too.
Speaker 5:I don't know, I don't know, I would. I don't know, I don't know, I would. I don't know. You'd be kind of a combination of Matt Bomer and Nathan Lane.
Speaker 3:Okay, Uncomfortable truths on Prairie Rainbow Review. Okay, Well, hopefully Mid-City Modern gets picked up. I mean, I hope. Would you like to see a season two?
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I do. You know, all the actors are so good at what they do and the choices they made for casting them was so good. Nathan Lane is just one of my all-time favorites. You know, one of my all-time favorite shows is the Birdcage, which, of course, he was one of the leads, and his take on that role just made the movie for me. So, yeah, I would definitely like to see him on stage again, and I would like to see Matt Bomer kind of explore this even more, and then, of course, getting to know Nathan Lee Graham I would like to see that as well. I just hate that they lost Linda Lavin. She added so much to this. I don't know how they would ever compensate for that.
Speaker 3:That is such a huge loss, even just in the world in general. She was such a part of pop culture, history and all of that. I grew up watching Alice. It was one of my favorite things. I still hear that crazy theme song in my head about the new girl in town and all that. I really hate that she's not going to be around to go to the second season. But I wonder, will they try to replace her some way somehow? Like have an estranged aunt come live with them, because you almost need an older lady in the house.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I mean it would be interesting if they tried to do that, and then who would they pick?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would be the other question. Maybe we can get like Jennifer Coolidge or something now that she's not on White Lotus.
Speaker 5:I'm not sure she'd want to play an old lady, but Ah.
Speaker 3:If Matt Boomer's in there. Well, and before we wrap everything up, we have to mention somebody who just passed away.
Speaker 5:Yeah, a little sidestep. Richard Chamberlain, you know, I tell you what, as growing up as a young gay guy in a world that thought I was all alone, he was one of those actors that gave me hope. He was one of those actors that gave me hope. He was such a nice-looking young man and his roles that he played were so iconic. Is that Thornbirds?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Was he in Thornbirds?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think he was.
Speaker 3:He certainly was.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he was one of my mother's favorite actors as well, and later in life, when he came out, mom said she knew that Richard Chamberlain was gay all the time and I thought, well, maybe he should have shared that with me. But yeah, so he's certainly an important person in my personal history, so his loss was definitely impactful.
Speaker 3:And he was a vet. He served in the army.
Speaker 5:Yeah, wow, I didn't know.
Speaker 3:That's crazy. He was a sergeant in post-war Korean War, so Richard Chamberlain definitely going to be missed, definitely somebody who was very private, was very guarded. He wasn't really out and it's funny that your mother would say that, because it sounds like he really wasn't outed until 1989, is what they were saying and how she knew it or how she didn't necessarily have to be told.
Speaker 5:She just really had some clarity around that.
Speaker 3:I guess she just really had some clarity around that I guess I always think that's interesting when you have people that say that they knew Before. It became kind of like a pop culture moment of that, and there's always people. I mean, I don't want to throw out any of my speculations, but there's always people I look at and go oh, something's up there.
Speaker 3:Another funny one was when Rosie O'Donnell came out, my mother said well, who didn't know? That was painfully obvious. Yeah, it was funny. That was a moment, well, anyway. Well, here's to mid-century modern. I can't believe. I can't say that, since we lived in a mid-century modern house for several years in the firelands. Yes, oh, my gosh. But I hope it does really well. I hope that everybody kind of gets wrapped up in it. It's certainly light, it's fluffy. It's probably what we need right now. It's just a sitcom. It's not anything even more elaborate than that. I mean, I don't even think they tried to make it.
Speaker 5:No, no, it's one of those shows that you can. Like I said, you won't have to do a lot of thinking behind it, it's just pure entertainment. 30 minutes.
Speaker 3:So that's what we're watching.
Speaker 5:I guess right now.
Speaker 3:Anyway, have a great rest of your week.
Speaker 8:Yes, I'm Joe Bainline.
Speaker 9:And I'm Sarah.
Speaker 8:Monkagil With News Wrap, a summary of some of the news in or affecting LGBTQ communities around the world for the week ending May 17, 2025. A non-binary Brazilian can identify as gender-neutral on their official government documents, thanks to a historic decision by the Superior Court of Justice. The unnamed applicant, assigned female at birth, had initially requested a male gender marker on their birth certificate after gender-affirming treatment. They later had second thoughts and appealed to the court to change to gender-neutral. The ruling of the five-judge panel was unanimous. Judge Nancy Andrihi spoke for them all, using female pronouns for the gender-neutral applicant. Andrihi wrote this human being must be requirement that transgender people undergo surgery or hormone therapy before changing their legal gender in 2018. They can simply go to a government registry office without providing supporting medical or legal documents. In this new ruling, the judges of South America's largest country have allowed the designation of gender neutral on a person's government documents for the first time.
Speaker 9:Political parties are banned from participating in the UK's largest LGBTQ pride celebrations this year. The organisers of Pride in London, birmingham Pride, brighton Pride and Manchester Pride cite the lack of sufficient support for transgender people by the ruling. Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the Lib Dems, the Greens, are also apparently deemed not to be doing enough in the wake of last month's Supreme Court ruling that excludes transgender women from the legal definition of woman in the Equality Act. A joint statement from the Pride organizers said attack. Our resolve has never been stronger. We will not allow progress to be undone. We will not stand by as the dignity, safety and humanity of our trans siblings are debated, delayed or denied. Some sources say that political parties will also be excluded by pride organizers in Belfast and Southampton, current Labour Prime Minister, sir Keir Starmer, former Conservative leader Boris Johnson, lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey and Green Party co-leader Carla Denner have all marched in Pride parades.
Speaker 9:Queer Party activists lament the ban and call for further dialogue and dignified access to National Health Service, gender-affirming care and a reformed, accessible gender recognition certificate process to allow legal gender changes. They also demand sustainable funding for trans-led services and support organizations across the country. As they said in their joint statement. This is the minimum. Anything less is not allyship, it's abandonment To those in power. When you demonstrate true solidarity and tangible commitment to trans rights, we will stand with you. Until then, we will continue to speak truth to power and fight for a future where every trans person can live safely, freely and proudly.
Speaker 8:Mass discharges of transgender service members from the US Armed Forces are underway. The Pentagon's May 14th order comes after the Supreme Court lifted the temporary injunctions that were blocking the process. On May 6th, no transgender person will be allowed to enlist while the constitutionality of the ban continues to be litigated in lower courts. Troops with diagnosis, history or symptoms consistent with gender dysphoria who refuse to self-identify and do not voluntarily resign will be weeded out by screening medical records. According to an unnamed senior Defense Department official speaking to Stars and Stripes, Active duty service members have until June 6 to quit. Military departments must submit compliance reports by June 15. The Pentagon's memo also confirms that the Defense Department has reinstated its ban on gender-affirming health care for active duty trans troops. Trans troops who self-identify by the applicable deadline will get honorable discharges and begin the separation process within 30 days. As Stars and Stripes reports, They'll also get financial benefits based on rank, time in service and whether they left service voluntarily or involuntarily.
Speaker 8:The anonymous Pentagon official explained to the military publication that an enlisted member at the fifth pay grade with 10 years of service would receive approximately $101,000 if they voluntarily separate. They'd get less than $51,000 if they are forced out. An officer at the third pay grade, with seven years of service, would receive about $125,000 if they voluntarily separate. They'd only get about $62,000 for an involuntary separation. Those voluntarily separating can also access some regular pre-separation services, including employment assistance, financial counseling and community reintegration services. They would also be eligible for temporary health care coverage. Trans people in the reserves have until July 7th to voluntarily resign or face forced expulsion and the loss of separation benefits. Stars and Stripes says that there are about 4,200 service members who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, although the precise number of transgender service members is not really known.
Speaker 9:Tennessee's transgender teachers and students can now be dead-named and have their preferred pronouns ignored by school officials with no recourse. The new law specifically prohibits public schools and school districts from creating policies that penalize those who decline to use pronouns that are inconsistent with a person's biological sex or to use a person's preferred name without a legal name change. It also allows lawsuits to be filed against school officials who disregard the new legislation to be filed against school officials who disregard the new legislation. Violators will be opened to civil liability that could lead to injunctions and monetary compensation. The schools would also pay attorney's fees. Republican Governor Bill Lee signed the law that sailed through both houses of the Republican-controlled state legislature.
Speaker 9:Democratic State Representative Justin Pearson was among several in his party to condemn the legislation, calling it the Bullying LGBTQ Students Act. Pearson is no stranger to strident arguments. After his famed temporary removal from the legislature for opposing gun violence, he told NBC TV affiliate WBIR. With all of the problems that we have as a state, whether that be dealing with poverty, the lack of health care, access, the rights of women to choose what they do with their bodies we're getting legislation after legislation that furthers discrimination, othering and separation. It's despicable and ridiculous that this is how we are using our time and energy, and it isn't helping anybody.
Speaker 8:Finally, florida's ban on drag shows was struck down by the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals on May 13th. The 2-1 majority found that the law's vague language, allegedly meant to protect children from salacious entertainment, violates free speech guarantees of the US Constitution. Governor Ron DeSantis signed the law when he was running for president in 2023. It threatened fines, loss of operating licenses and criminal penalties against a venue or performer for exposing a child to lewd performances, even with parental consent. Child to lewd performances, even with parental consent. Drag shows were not specifically mentioned. Instead, it prohibited minors from attending an adult live performance that depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement or specific sexual activities, including the lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts. There's nothing like that in the kind of family-friendly drag brunches that are wildly popular at the queer-friendly restaurant chain.
Speaker 8:Hamburger Mary's. The Orlando location filed suit against the ban. The state appealed to the 11th Circuit after a lower court issued a preliminary injunction blocking its enforcement. Writing for the majority, judge Robin S Rosenbaum said by providing only vague guidance as to which performances it prohibits, the law wields a shotgun. When the First Amendment allows a scalpel at most, the case now returns to the District Federal court, where a bench trial can be scheduled. Hamburger Mary's has since closed its Orlando location, while the owners have continued to sponsor drag event community fundraisers. They plan to open a new restaurant in Kissimmee. Their victory statement said in part this bill has nothing to do with children and everything to do with the continued oppression of the LGBTQ plus community. Anytime our legislators want to demonize a group, they say they are coming for your children, in this case creating a false narrative that drag queens are grooming and recruiting your children, with no factual basis or history to back up these accusations at all.
Speaker 9:That's.
Speaker 8:News Wrap global queer news with attitude for the week ending May 17th 2025. Accusations at all and brought to you by you.
Speaker 9:Thank you. Help keep us in gears around the world at thiswayoutorg, where you can also read the text of this newscast and much more. For this Way Out, I'm Sarah Montague. Stay healthy.
Speaker 8:And I'm Joe Bainline, stay safe.
Speaker 1:This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources. Check our webpage QueerVoicesorg for more information. Queer Voices executive producer is Brian Levinka, deborah Moncrief-Bell is co-producer, brett Cullum and David Mendoza Drusman are contributors. The News Wrap segment is part of another podcast called this Way Out, which is produced in Los Angeles.
Speaker 6:Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime. This program does not endorse any political views or animal species. Views, opinions and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent. In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining products.
Speaker 1:For Queer Voices. I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
