Queer Voices
Queer Voices
July 30th Queer Voices - Out State Rep Jolanda Jones and Joel Sandel and the Wizard of Oz
The strength of queer resilience shines through in this powerful episode featuring two remarkable Texans taking bold stands in hostile territory. Representative Jolanda Jones pulls back the curtain on the disturbing reality of Texas politics, where LGBTQ+ rights are under constant assault and even moderate Republicans vote for discriminatory legislation out of fear of being "primaried" by extremists. As Texas' first openly queer Black representative, Jones shares her remarkable journey from ally to advocate, including her groundbreaking decision to hire an openly transgender person while serving on Houston's city council years before such actions were commonplace.
"Every day there was an attack on LGBTQ rights," Jones reveals with candid frustration about the recent legislative session. Her piercing question to Republican colleagues—"What is this fixation you have with who you think I sleep with?"—exposes the bizarre obsession underlying much anti-LGBTQ+ legislation. Now running for Congressional District 18, Jones aims to become the first openly Black LGBTQ+ person in Congress, continuing her lifelong fight for equality and representation.
The episode transitions from political battlegrounds to creative expression with Joel Sandel, a veteran of Houston's theater scene currently starring as the Wizard in AD Players' spectacular production of The Wizard of Oz. Sandel explores why this classic story has become "the storybook for our community," with its themes of chosen family, belonging, and self-acceptance resonating deeply with queer experiences. The production itself mirrors this blending of traditional and progressive values, maintaining the beloved story while incorporating spectacular new elements like flying characters and restored musical numbers.
Both conversations illuminate different facets of queer existence in Texas—the political fight for basic rights and the cultural expressions that sustain the soul. As Jones powerfully summarizes: "Queer people are no different than straight people. We want families, jobs, happiness... We're just like you. We just happen to love the people that we love." Listen now for an uplifting reminder that whether in legislative chambers or on stage, queer voices will not be silenced.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
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And now Houston's only primetime radio program dedicated to news and concerns of the lesbian, gay and transgender community. This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast and radio show that's been on the air for several decades as one of the oldest LGBTQ plus radio shows in the southern United States. As one of the oldest LGBTQ plus radio shows in the southern United States, this week's episode features two powerhouses in our community, from the stage to the statehouse, starting with an interview with Texas State Representative Jolanda Jones, texas' first ever openly queer black representative elected to the state legislature.
Speaker 3:When I was on city council I was the first person in the United States as an elected official who hired an openly trans person. I literally protested. I don't know if you remember this HRC had its convention here. They were trying to cut the T out of GLBT. I literally protested that at the GRB because how can you take away the T? So I've been fighting for LGBTQ plus rights for a very long time and I didn't even realize I was lesbian. Then. I didn't realize, I didn't accept that I was lesbian until I was 15.
Speaker 2:We round out our episode with a conversation with the Energizer Bunny of Houston's acting scene, Joel Sandel, playing the role of the wizard in the AD Players' production of the Wizard of Oz at the George Theatre.
Speaker 4:It's fun and it's such a classic story and it's particularly from a gay perspective. I mean, it's like it's become our, it's our national story.
Speaker 5:It is. It's the storybook for our community.
Speaker 2:Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 6:This is Brian Lubinka, and today I have the honor of interviewing State Representative Jolanda Jones. Welcome to the show, jolanda. Thanks, Brian, how are you? I'm good. How are you is, I guess, the big question with all of the shenanigans going on in Austin. Tell us what it was like the shenanigans going on in Austin.
Speaker 3:Tell us what it was like. Oh my goodness, it was very disheartening. Every day there was an attack on LGBTQ rights. They literally tried to stick something related to gender identity in every bill, whether it was and it just wasn't related. I actually asked one of my Republican colleagues, like what is this fixation you guys have with who you think I sleep with? I mean, it just didn't make any sense to me, so it was just hard. A bunch of anti-trans bills, it was just hard.
Speaker 6:So it's always good to be around people who are there to just help fortify us, because we were on the defensive every day. I'm sure you have stories from that time from people testifying.
Speaker 3:I guess you know there's always people who are not even from Texas, who they, I guess, fly in, who tell detransitioning stories, all of whom did it when they were right, not kids, and it's a narrative that they tried to suck us into, and it was just difficult, and what I made a decision to do is, I would say what I needed to say, to refute whatever it is I needed to refute and I didn't go back and forth because that's what they wanted us to do. They wanted to dominate airtime with, basically, them saying it was boys and girls restrooms or men and girls restrooms. So the ones who filed the bills, like they, really are obsessed and they think we're an abomination from God and all these other things that I'm certain you've heard. I went to one of my colleagues, who I would consider a moderate Republican, who wasn't crazy, and I literally said hey, can you please help me understand why you guys are so focused on who you think we're sleeping with and what you think we're doing in bed? And he was like, look, joe, I don't care who you sleep with, but the bottom line is, when they file these bills, I've got to vote for them because otherwise I'll be primary.
Speaker 3:And if you looked at what happened from last session to this session. That is, in fact, what happened. The quote unquote moderate Republicans were eviscerated by the right wing Republicans. So we literally have a house full of Republicans who are either like wackadoo right wing Republicans or moderate Republicans who are terrified of being primaried, and so they're going to do whatever basically the Trump line is, which does not bode well for us, because in the House there are 88 Republicans and 62 Democrats, which means they really don't need us.
Speaker 3:The Republicans really don't need the Democrats to pass whatever they want, because it only takes 76 votes to pass anything. So they've got 88 of them and, generally speaking, the fight is between the wackadoo Republicans and the, I guess, moderate ones, for lack of a better word. On the Democratic side, there's only 62 of us. So, literally, if we want to pass a bill, we've got to go find 14 Republicans who will, for all intents and purposes, vote with Democrats rather than the Republicans, and for them, that is used against them in primaries, and they're all terrified of being primaries, all terrified of being primary. All of them every single solitary one of them who I would consider to be moderate, that I'm friends with, have voted for things they didn't want to vote for because they thought it was bad. But they were more afraid of losing in a primary to a wackadoo person, and so they voted what they thought would keep them elected, which does not bode well for the LBGTQ community at all.
Speaker 6:Definitely not. Now let me ask you the question what is the thing that surprised you most about the state legislature?
Speaker 3:That's an interesting question. The thing that surprised me most is that we as Democrats because we are in the minority have to try to work with Republicans if we hope to get anything passed, and have to try to work with Republicans if we hope to stop anything bad. So we actually need them. They don't need us and there is no fundamental foundational beliefs that we all share. So, for example, I mean this doesn't have to do with LGBTQ issues, but a Republican literally filed a bill to remove sawed-off shotguns off of the banned gun list. Which who would think to do that? In the history of this state, sawed-off shotguns have been banned, but they think, or they thought, that you had a Second Amendment right to have a sawed-off shotgun. I mean, who uses sawed-off shotguns? Think about that for a second. That bill actually passed.
Speaker 3:So these are the things that they're passionate about or eating, or drinking milk that's not pasteurized. I mean they fight over the right to drink raw milk and not have it regulated, even though there are so many different ways. You can get sick from drinking it, you can get sick from drinking it, and they fight harder for the right to drink raw milk than they do for the right to be who you are as an LGBTQ plus person. They fight harder for that, for that, than for a woman to have a right to control her body and have access to the very critical medical care that we need. So the things that.
Speaker 3:What surprised me most about the legislature is that the things that I think are important they don't necessarily think is important, they just don't. And when I've tried to engage in conversation with them, they just have these fixations. For the most part, they deal with what they are afraid of. So they are afraid that government is involved in how they buy milk, in how they regulate the sale of milk like literally like raw milk, and the government is too busy regulating that and therefore the government should not be involved in that part of our lives, because we should have personal freedoms. Yet they don't equate my right to control my body with the same integrity. It's bizarre and for me it's irrational, but it is what we deal with, because that irrational person's vote is the same as my vote.
Speaker 6:So I understand you're throwing your hat into the ring for Congress. So I understand you're throwing your hat into the ring for Congress.
Speaker 3:Why would you want to do that? Because so I'm not throwing it, it's thrown, and I considered running for Congressional District 18 when Congresswoman Jackson Lee died. Congressman Turner, who at the time was not a congressman yet, asked me if I would back out for a term and allow him to be the congressperson argue. The most prominent and respected if not unequivocally, but people I think would say he's one of the most dominant and respected campaign consultants. He ran Mayor Parker's campaign, he ran Mayor Turner's campaign, he runs Adrian Garcia's campaign, he runs Leslie Briones's, so he is a. He's running Jovan Tyler's campaign, so he is respected. He has been my consultant since 2003. In 2015, he began to work with Mayor Turner.
Speaker 3:Well, at the time he was Representative Turner and he ran his mayoral campaign and obviously Mayor Turner won. So Grant called me one night and told me that I needed to call Sylvester, or I should say Mayor Turner, because Mayor Turner was interested in running for Congress and Grant and I were already preparing for me to run for Congress after the congresswoman died. I asked Grant why I should talk to Sylvester and he told me that or I should say then-Rep Turner wanted for Grant to run his campaign for for mayor and that Grant was my campaign consultant. And Grant made it clear that the only way he would represent Sylvester is if I was, if I decided not to run. And so he just told me to give him a call and he told me that he was with me no matter what a call. And he told me that he was with me no matter what and it was up to me. But he thought that the representative and I should have a conversation, because there are a lot of concerns in the Black community that we run against each other without talking first. So I called Rep Turner immediately. We had a discussion. He told me that he wanted to run for Congress. He thought that he was prepared to run for Congress, that he had worked with the Congresswoman, which I had worked with her as well right, because the 18th congressional district is bigger than 147, but all of it, most of all of it, was in the city of Houston. And he said that he would only stay for a term and that after he left that he would endorse me. He asked me if I would consider doing that. He told me that he only planned on being there a term, that he was a new grandfather, but he also thought that anyone who won that particular election would have an asterisk by their name because of the time that the Congresswoman died, the Democratic nomination had already happened, so she was. The Democratic nominee had already happened, so she was the Democratic nominee. So precinct chairs would actually determine who the Democratic nominee was. And he thought that there would be an asterisk because a small number of people should not pick who the Democratic nominee is. The people should pick who the Democratic nominee is. So he would be a bridge to the person that would be there for a long time, because he was not going to be there long.
Speaker 3:And so he asked me if I would bow out. I told him I needed to think about it. It was a major decision. I called Grant. Grant told me whatever you want to do, joe, grant calls me Joe, and I said I need to think about this. We've been working on this and we've worked a long time for this because we talked about we talked about before, if the congresswoman ever left, that I would run for CD 18. And I told him I needed to just think about it. I was not going to make a quick decision like that with such a major decision.
Speaker 3:That same night, rodney Ellis called me and made the same argument that he thought that I should back out because Grant was going to represent me and the only way he would represent Representative Turner was if I didn't run. And Rodney also said that if I backed out, that he would endorse me as well when Sylvester left, which would be after a term. So I called Grant back, we had a discussion about it and I thought to myself I can wait for two years. I sort of don't like that. Precinct chairs will decide who the Democratic nominee is. I'd much rather that people decide who the Democratic nominee is and I have an endorsement from Sylvester and from Rodney. That's just how that went.
Speaker 3:And then, obviously, the congressman died unexpectedly. And then, obviously, the congressman died unexpected and I'm sorry I also. We also negotiated that I would endorse Sylvester and that I would endorse Erica to succeed her mom for that small term. And I did that. I mean I did that and that way, grant. And then I gave Grant my blessing to work on Sylvester's campaign and Erica's campaign, because Grant had been working with me since 2003. He began working with Sylvester in 2015. And the first time he worked with Erica was with the, you know, when she filled her mom's unexplored term, which was from, I guess, december, until she got sworn in. And then it ended when, you know, congressman Turner got sworn in.
Speaker 3:So when the mayor died unexpectedly, it was in the middle of a session. The Republicans had filed really horrible anti-gay bills, anti-dei bills, anti-women's rights bills, pro-i-can-have-a-gun-for-whatever-reason-i-want bills, a bunch of anti-vaccination bills, just a bunch of really bad bills, anti-access to health care bills. And I was in the middle of a session and I needed to stay in the House because I was elected by my constituents to fight for our rights. And that's exactly what I did to pressure me into, for all intents and purposes, abdicating my responsibilities as the elected representative of House District 147. I refused to do that. But what I did do because people kept asking me if I was going to run I put out a statement, I believe, either on March 15th or 18th, whatever reasons. Those dates are staying in my mind and I'm good with dates like that. So one of those days I put out a statement saying I'm seriously considering running for congressional district 18. But right now, uh, the constituents of house district 147 need me to represent them in this crazy, crazy, evil, evil house, and I will make a decision after the legislative session is over. That is what I said. The session ended on June 2nd. I moved back to Houston on June 4th. I announced on June 5th because I don't quit what I start and I focus 100% on the task at hand.
Speaker 3:And I believe that my record on the state of the state health care, which I've always fought for access to affordable and quality health care my record on voting rights fighting for people, fighting for the marginalized to have the right to vote stands on its own. I have fought for criminal justice reform, that criminal justice should focus on reformation, restoration and lock up really bad people but try to help give people the things they need in order to not commit crimes. I've worked on job creation because the best deterrent to crime is a good job. I've worked on vocational training because everybody's not going to go to college, but I've also worked on providing access to higher education, if you want it. My record on fighting against the TEA takeover when I was on the school board and as a state rep, I voted on the school board to sue TEA so that they could not take over HISD and that lawsuit I think it took four years for them to finally win. By the time they won, I was off of the board, but when I was in the House and I still am I voted against vouchers. Vouchers are going to destroy public education.
Speaker 3:I have fought for veterans. My dad was a veteran and we don't treat our veterans well. I've fought to expand Medicaid and Social Security as it is related to the state. So the state has refused to accept money for Medicaid because it came from a Democratic President Biden, president Obama and when we had Democratic Congresses they did not accept Medicaid. Well, the money was sent to Texas if we wanted it. So I fought in the House to expand Medicaid because the money is there. So my record and I've also I'm sorry, on city council worked with HUD a lot to bring affordable housing. I was the chair of the Housing and Community Development Committee where I was responsible for affordable housing and also HOPWA funding, to receive HOPWA funding, to provide what is needed, the causes, and I believe that had I not stepped aside for Congressman Turner, I very well could have already been the congressperson. So this isn't something that I just decided to do.
Speaker 3:Grant and I have talked about this for a long time, but I liked the congresswoman. I mean, there was no reason for me to run against her. She was fighting for us. I don't have a problem with that. I probably would have voted just like she voted on things. So why run against her? But if she's no longer there, why would I not run? Because my constituents were asking me to run. I mean, that's the only reason I put out a statement during the session is because people kept saying please run, please run, please run, and I just said I can't abandon my constituents in House District 147. So it's not something new. I will also say I'm sorry about this.
Speaker 3:When I was on city council, I was the first person in the United States as an elected official who hired an openly trans person. I hired Josephine Bacardo. That's when I learned about the importance of restrooms and why they are significant, and I fought for her right to use the women's restroom against the city of Houston and told her that if they kept screwing with her and trying to force her to use men's restroom at first and then the unisex restroom, that I would refer her to Phyllis Fry and Mitchell Katine to fight for her right to be who she is. So I was fighting for LGBTQ rights generally and specifically trans rights long before it was the thing to do, I literally protested. I don't know if you remember this. Hrc had its convention here when I was on city council. They were trying to cut the T out of GLBT. I literally protested that at the GRB because how can you take away the T? So I've been fighting for LGBTQ plus rights for a very long time.
Speaker 3:In fact, before I was ever elected I was a volunteer lawyer at the NAACP. I was also in law school. I was an intern at the NAACP and I worked in their legal clinic. I actually drafted wills for people with full-blown AIDS. This is in 1993, 1994, back when people literally thought that you would catch AIDS you remember them talking about that Just from being in the same room with someone with AIDS and I literally would go to people's homes they had T-cell counts, 200 and less to fight for the right for their partner to keep whether it's property or the children that they raise, or their homes or their cars or their bank accounts from the families that didn't approve of their relationships. So I fought for our families before we had the right to marry and I didn't even realize I was lesbian. Then I didn't realize, I didn't accept that I was lesbian until I was 50. This was in my 30s. Yeah, it was in my 30s.
Speaker 6:We're speaking with state rep Jolanda Jones from District 147, who's announced that she's running for Congressional District 18 for the next election. So, Jolanda, how can people find out more information about you?
Speaker 3:wwwjolandajonescom. Let me spell my name, because my name is not Yolanda. Some people think it is. It is J-O-L-A-N-D-A-Jonescom. The bottom line is my mom liked Yolanda. My dad's name was John. She wanted me to have his initials. She took away the Y and added a J. Yolanda, my dad's name was John. She wanted me to have his initials. She took away the Y and added a J. So that's how you spell my name. I was also the first black openly LGBTQ plus person in the Texas legislature.
Speaker 3:This congressional seat I will be the first openly black LGBTQ person in Congress, in the House of Representatives. So there are no black lesbians in Congress, or black men in Congress for that matter, who are, who are LGBT as a as a resident of House District 147 and a district congressional, district 18, I look forward to the race.
Speaker 6:I can't endorse online, but I look forward to the battle because I love Grant.
Speaker 3:Well, I can tell you that I am actively seeking the Victory Fund endorsement. I've had the Victory Fund endorsement in the past. I've always sought the GOBT Now it's called the caucus. It used to be the GOBT caucus. I've always sought their endorsement. I've never hid, even when I thought I was the best ally ever for recognizing I'm lesbian. I was proud to be an ally, so I used to have a big.
Speaker 3:When I began to accept that I'm lesbian, I was terrified. I was on city council. I was terrified that I would lose the black vote because my people bless our hearts, lose the black vote because my people bless our hearts um, tend to be a bit homophobic, um, and I I just decided I was tired of hiding and I and I just came out and I was expecting doom and the truth is I didn't get a lot of doom. There were some who you had problems with me, but for the most part it was a positive reception and I also was a topic of conversation. So it allowed me to have conversations with people who never even knew they actually knew a gay person, because they would be like simple conversations that well, but you could get a man and I'm like, okay, but I don't want a man, I'm not attracted to men, or you're pretty. So what do you mean? You don't think lesbians can be pretty? Yeah, we can be pretty.
Speaker 3:So they had all these negative perceptions about lesbians and gays and trans people and bisexual and pansexual people I mean, wherever you are on the spectrum. They have these ideas about us that nobody ever talks about. But they've created these really bad impressions in their minds, and I'm just thankful that I've been able to convert some people who are literally anti-gay, who now know I'm not trying to turn everybody gay, or they know that I'm not trying to like, molest kids. Some people think that if you're in our community, that you're trying to molest kids, we don't, we don't do that Right, and so so it's been a an experience. I, like I said, there are some not many, there are some who hold it against me, but I can't worry about those people. We can't worry about those people. We can't worry about those people. We've got to influence people that we can and just educate people about who we are.
Speaker 6:And I think that's how you'll be successful, and that is what I will do because diversity matters.
Speaker 3:And that is what I will do when I'm in Congress.
Speaker 6:I think that's your key to success is changing people's hearts and minds, and I think you can do that.
Speaker 3:Thank you, think that's your key to success is changing people's hearts and minds, and I think you can do that. Thank you, I appreciate that and I'm working, I'm fighting hard. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm working hard. Um, they may be three months ahead of me like fundraising wise, but I'll, I'll catch up. At the end of the day, I've got much greater name id than any of them which goes a long way, especially in a race when there's so many people.
Speaker 3:I'm not even certain of how many people have filed. I've heard 24, I've heard 29. Here's the deal, only, well, I've actually gone to the secretary of state and and filed. There are two other people who filed at the secretary of state, who I don't know who they are, but only three of us have actually filed with the Secretary of State and our candidates. What we have to do first is we have to file with the FEC, the Federal Elections Commission, and tell them that we're interested in running, which we've all done. Right, but to actually be on the ballot, you've got to file with the Secretary of State. I've already done that. The other names that you heard have not yet.
Speaker 3:I know because I asked so we'll see on September 3rd that's the last day to file who's actually in the race for good. I'm in this race for good. When people know who I am, I have a. Obviously there's some people that don't like me, and that's fine. My grandmother says that if, if some people don't like you, you're not doing enough to shake up the status quo and we know the status quo doesn't include us mostly and if you've been paying attention, paying attention to the legislature, then you know that the status quo actually wants to unwind rights that we fought long and we fought hard for. And so we've got to agitate the status quo, because if we do not, we will die. Our very existence is at stake, especially our trans brothers and sisters.
Speaker 6:Absolutely. We've been speaking with State Representative Jolanda Jones about her career and her plans for the future, so thank you for coming on, jolanda.
Speaker 3:Thanks, brian. I really appreciate you Keep spreading the word about who we are as queer people and what we do. And the one thing I'd like to tell people and I've told people as an elected official, because I do have a platform queer people are no different than straight people. We want to have families, we want a job, we want to be able to pay our bills, we want to be happy. We don't want to bother other people, we want our children to be happy.
Speaker 3:We want to be educated. If we want, you know, like a higher education, or we want to be able to go to cosmetology school or I don't know be in a union. We just want to live our lives just like you. And you don't sleep together 24-7, neither do we. So while there's this incessant need to think about what you think we do in bed I mean, how often are you in bed? I mean, we're just like you. We just happen to love the people that we love, and they may not be like the people that you love. This is literally the only difference between us. So that's what I try to show people by my votes. That's what I try to show people by my actions. That's what I try to show people by my words.
Speaker 6:Well, thank you, jolanda, and for more information go to JolandaJonescom. Thank you, and this is Queer Voices.
Speaker 2:We round out our episode with a conversation with the Energizer Bunny of Houston's acting scene, Joel Sandel, playing the role of the wizard in the AD Players production of the Wizard of Oz at the George Theater.
Speaker 5:The Wizard of Oz at the George Theatre, joel Sandel has been referred to as the Energizer Bunny of Houston's acting scene, and this kind of captures him perfectly. I have seen him act in so many shows that I couldn't even name them all. And even when faced with a medical emergency, he just bounces right back gets back on stage.
Speaker 5:Joel studied acting in LA, but he's been performing in Houston for decades. But right about now Joel is starring in the Wizard of Oz at the George Theater, presented by 80 players through August 10th. He's playing basically what I would consider a dream role of mine and probably most actors. He's actually playing the wizard in the Wizard of Oz. So welcome Joel, did you say?
Speaker 4:starring. Did you say starring? I mean it's the title role, it is. It's a very I mean it's what we're calling the princess track, because I play the Professor Marvel in the first act. I have one short scene and I've got two scenes. One is the very last scene at the end, so it's like I'm sitting in the dressing room most of the time, but it's fun and it's such a classic story and it's particularly from a gay perspective. I mean it's like this is sort of it's become our, it's our national story, it's the you know it is.
Speaker 5:It's the storybook for our community and we will get into all of that. But I really wanted to pick out some roles for you to highlight your career, but I realized that your resume is so long. What do you consider just quickly, so that folks can realize where they may know you from? Like, what do you consider some of your high points?
Speaker 4:Well, I did George in Sunday in the Park with George, the Houston premiere of that show in 1995. And that was a major high point. And I got to play Gabriel in James Joyce's the Dead another just one of my favorite things ever Polinsky in the Coast of Utopia trilogy, ned in Elizabeth Rex at Stages, which was God. I love that show, it's so beautiful. And then most recently, robert Kennedy in RFK Robert Kennedy Sr, I should point out, not the brain worm riddled.
Speaker 5:To me you'll always be Robert Kennedy at Main Street. I saw that and I thought you were brilliant in it. Thank, you. You will also always be Mother. Superior from Charles.
Speaker 6:Bush's Divine.
Speaker 5:Sister.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes, yes, which.
Speaker 5:I really felt wasn't really acting for you very much.
Speaker 4:No no, no, that was you know. Yeah, I've had you know. Actually it's so funny, I can see, because I've done three of Charles Bush's women in my career, because it's, I think, of her sort of different. I mean, my woman persona is. I think it's isn't that strange how I've separated my brain in that way.
Speaker 5:She's the other actor, and so well, I think charles would be thrilled by that. Actually we had charles on queer voices. Deborah moncrie felt did a two-part interview with okay it was amazing. It was about his uh autobiography that he wrote right. But uh, we got to meet him and I was just like, oh my gosh, I know, I know, I'm just doing your stuff forever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I loved that was. And we keep saying, because when we did Divine Sister, that was, I firmly believe, the funniest show I've ever been in and the audiences did not show up and it was a very poorly attended piece and we got great press for it and I don't, I don't understand. You know, even our community, which I thought was going to come out for us, did not show up, so it was very frustrating. Anyway, we keep saying maybe we're going to bring it back at some point. I we need to do it fast before I need too much surgical tape to get through it.
Speaker 5:No, absolutely. We should resurrect it. You know it's weird. We live in a weird era where I think marketing for theater is tougher and tougher and tougher to do. But here's a really funny connection we both have. You debuted in 1986 in a role at Playhouse, 1960 in Butterflies Are Free. I did Woody Allen's Don't Drink the Water there in 1988. So, very bizarre when I think about the trajectory of all that and I used to go to that space when it was a nightclub for teens.
Speaker 4:But there you go. It was very much a sort of a fly by the seat of your pants theater over there.
Speaker 5:Oh, totally. But you are definitely not in a fly by your pants kind of production right now, because you're at the george oh, I do fly. Yeah, oh no oh that's right. I guess you do, because you have to yeah, yeah, yeah, the balloon. I totally forgot about this. Now, one of the things that I'm curious about this production of the wizard of oz. Where's the script coming from?
Speaker 4:it's not the andrew lloyd weber person, or no version. No, and it's basically the screenplay, but it has been amplified and it was done. It's an English theater did it and I can't remember which one. Is it? The RSC Maybe?
Speaker 5:maybe, maybe, but. I've been looking up the etymology of the show yeah, and there's aology of the show yeah, and there's a couple of English productions of it and one was spearheaded by Andrew Lloyd Webber, which I'm assuming you're not, because it doesn't say Andrew Lloyd Webber is the Wizard of Oz, it just says the Wizard of Oz. The musical, which I think was the Royal Shakespeare Company originated.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's, there's, you'll recognize most of it, but then there's a lot of sort of almost panto-esque broad humor elements that have been brought into it. It's definitely amped up the broad humor, but it's a lot of fun and it's the same old. I was talking to Spencer Platchy, who's our fabulous Cowardly Lion, last night or yesterday afternoon during the show. You know it's just the message of this show is so great. I mean, regardless of how well you know it, it's just everything about this story lands in a very real deep way and I think that's why it's lasted so long it has definitely stood the test of time, but what were auditions like for this thing?
Speaker 5:I mean, how did you end up being the wizard?
Speaker 4:Well, this was really funny. Sarah Norris, who directed she is from out of town so she was doing video submissions. So I did a video thing and it said sing something in the style of the show, which is something I hate. When I see it on audition notice. It's like I don't know what you think is the style of the show. I just yeah. So I thought, well, I know, if I only had a brain and it's from the show and there's a sort of unspoken rule you shouldn't do anything from the thing you're auditioning for. But I thought, you know, I'm not going to be considered. If I get considered for anything, it's going to be for the professor or the wizard. And so I did this verse of if I only had a brain and then I did the sides for the professor. When I get the callback notice, it was for not only the professor wizard track but it was also for Scarecrow. And so I got the notice for the dance call and I had a heart attack.
Speaker 4:In my heyday I was only a marginal dancer. I could do pretty much anything I was required to do, as long as it didn't involve pirouettes or you know anything too extreme. But I mean it was not my favorite thing and cause I'm just, I'm not, a natural. I sent Kevin Dean, who's the artistic director at 80 players, a note and I said look, thanks so much. I just I don't think it's, it's, it's, I'm, I'm not. I'm nearly 65 years old, I can not do the scarecrow dance, I'm just I'm so. Thanks so much, but you know I'll, I'll pass. And he understood and I like.
Speaker 4:The next week, after the callbacks had happened, he called me one night and he said can we talk about which pause? And I said sure, and he said well, we had the callbacks. And sarah came in and said when, when they started the callback, said where's joel? And he explained to her what was going on and she said well, I'll cast him as the professor and the wizard, without he didn't have to come in. So he said would you be?
Speaker 4:I said are you offering the part? Yeah, I'll do that. I just did not want to put myself in a dance audition. That was basically that's kind of how that happened. It was great. I love that she got enough from my, because I always wonder if video auditions are working or if they've come across. I have no idea. I do one take if I do a video audition, because if I start watching myself, it's like everything's bad. So it's just like, okay, it's out there, there it is, go do it what you will. And so this worked, and so yeah, and so I ended up getting to do it, so it was great.
Speaker 5:Well, you mentioned that Spencer is the Cowardly Lion, which is ironic since Spencer Plakey was in the touring version of the Lion King as Scar Scar for two years, yeah.
Speaker 6:I mean what? And this is the other thing.
Speaker 4:Talking about the amplified script, there's a moment where there is a direct reference to the lion king and and I know not everybody is aware of spencer's history with the show, but it's been getting a huge reaction every night. He does it because it's so obvious that it's lion king, but the fact that he does it just makes it all that much more delicious, and then if you know that, it's even better so tell me what it's like working at 80 players.
Speaker 5:I think this is your third time with them, right yeah?
Speaker 4:I've done. This is my third time on stage and I did one of the show I directed forever plaid Great show. It was so fun. I love those guys. I just I fell in love with every one of them and they're just fabulous. No, it's a great place to work. They're very warm, warm, very. Everything is professionally run and the facility is just gorgeous. They're a terrific group of folks and, yeah, just this they're.
Speaker 5:They're fabulous well, you know it's so funny because for years and decades I associated with that old school house building that they had, yeah, and then all of a sudden they build this huge campus in the galleria and you're just like what the is this?
Speaker 5:And just the scale of what they do now is so much bigger. Oh yeah, whatever they did before, I mean, they were always good and they were always solid. I remember, you know, 12 angry men in the old space and things like that, and the sets were always amazing, but wow, they really ratcheted up.
Speaker 4:This is the most expensive production they've ever done for this show. They've added a fly system so that they can fly the witch and flying monkey. There's, I think, only one monkey that flies, but there's a couple other flying gags and then, of course, the balloon at the end, and so it's yeah. Wow, that's crazy, I know I know.
Speaker 5:Well, I have to ask are you personally like a big, huge Wizard of Oz fan?
Speaker 4:Oh, my god, I mean I imprinted on Oz as a very young child, or it imprinted on me, or both. I don't know how that works, but it was one of those. It's just so interesting to me that Judy Garland is this gay icon that before I had any sense of any of that, there's something about her and something about her in that story that just it goes right into the core of your being and you cannot help. But your soul is touched and and it and it, it fires something in you that you're you can't articulate, it's I can't clearly. But yeah, no, I mean from very, very early on. And of course I, as as a young kid, I was as terrified as anybody the flying monkeys and the witch and all that stuff, and but, I can still, I'll watch it two or three times a year just because it's so magical.
Speaker 4:It's just it's, it's, it's one of the perfect movies and yeah, and that story, just it just resonates in a very profound way. It's interesting, it's one of the perfect movies and yeah, and that story, just it just resonates in a very profound way.
Speaker 5:It's interesting it's really been beloved by the LGBTQIA plus community. I don't think that the books by Frank L Baum were certainly not aimed at us. I mean they were political satire and commentary and things like that and but I think the movie was meant for this wide audience. And it almost feels like there's this message in the movie and in the musical, where Dorothy has this like chosen family. It's all these misfits kind of coming together. They're all kind of bucking up together and creating this kind of makeshift family and Dorothy really is kind of like the outsider of her family. I mean I feel like, you know, she's kind of the adopted one, re-embraced by her aunt and uncle and all that. So I mean maybe there's something there that's that place of like, oh, I finally belong in this place and I don't belong in this black and white boring.
Speaker 4:Also, I think the ultimate message that comes out of it too, is, with the scarecrow and the tin man and the cowardly lion, they've always had the properties that they think they're searching for. They don't. You know he. He basically says, well, you just don't have verification, but yeah, you've got it. And then with dorothy, you know, you've always had the power to go home. So this message of what, whatever we spend our life searching for, like you know, there's something, there's something lacking within us that we have to go out to find. We really have it all. It's just accepting that and finding peace within just that very simple idea that we are enough.
Speaker 5:Now, one of the things as an actor that scares me to death is whenever I have to go up against a ginormous pop culture juggernaut like this movie. I mean I feel like whatever I do, I'm gonna be compared. So how did you escape? Or how did the cast escape this trap of oh my gosh, we are not Judy Garland and Margaret Hamilton and all these people well, and that's the thing.
Speaker 4:And Sarah was, she made that point very early on. She didn't want impressions of of the actors in the film. These are very different takes on very, I mean, because the characters are the characters, but but the there are differences. Obviously there's something about the way the professor is written that it's very hard to kind of get frank morgan out of your. So I mean some of I think some of what I'm doing is a little of it's definitely influenced by him, but I've added more of a sort of a sideshow carnival guy edge to it Because that's there's a circus sort of theme that we have working with our production.
Speaker 4:Same thing with the Wizard. We don't have the big mechanism with the big, you know, puffy projected head for for the wizard we've got a practical thing. It's big and it's and it's imposing looking and with all the smoke and everything it's really spooky. But like I'm inside working the mouth and when they pull the curtain back it's just basically they kept me there working the mouth and I have to shut the curtain, and just little things that will keep it from being a direct comparison, you know.
Speaker 5:Well, and this thing is playing through August 10th right At the George Theater, which is kind of in the Galleria area. You can't miss it if you're driving down West Cyber. I mean, it's right there, that's the Galleria on the right, and of course, matinees and all during the week and things like that.
Speaker 4:You know, obviously worth checking out. The wizard of oz, oh yeah, I mean, it goes without saying, this is something for the whole family and you should definitely get all the kitties together and and it's you can bring everybody to it and everybody will enjoy it. And oh, we have a real toto. I mean it's uh, our toto is jody is the actual dog and she's a female and she's only we use a mock, we call her faux toe, yes um that because some of this stuff is just too complicated to have an actual dog in the scene.
Speaker 4:So we've got a look-alike toy that is in roughly half, maybe a little over half, and then the scenes where we actually used. I think it works pretty well. The audience seems to buy it and the dog's adorable.
Speaker 5:It's the biggest hand at curtain call of course, because it's a dog, I mean never work with animals or kids yeah, yeah so you're doomed and of course, I cannot let you go without talking about car takes with deborah hope. So you've been doing this YouTube series where you and Deborah who is also an actress here in Houston, very talented, crazy I mean oh my gosh, August, Osage County, I was just blown away and you both go see plays. Sometimes you do movies and you review them from the car. So how the heck did that get started?
Speaker 4:Okay, for one thing I always have to correct we don't review, we are promoters. We were out there just to say, go see it, make your own mind up, and because we want people to fill up the theater, just go see. Go see something. Because so many times you know you go see something with a friend and you don't have the same opinion about it. I would hate to be someone that would maybe dissuade someone from seeing something that they might actually get something out of. So go see everything. You're not going to like everything, but that's life, you know. But but go to live theater because we got to support live theater. We have sort of reviewed movies before because it's not our community, that's, that's they're not. They're not getting their feelings hurt if we say something negative about a film. But now he got started. My sister had mentioned that Debra and I should have a TV show.
Speaker 5:The two of you together are gold.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we have a good banter. And so the first thing we did was House of Gucci, when I was driving to the theater to see the movie that night, because I had started thinking maybe we could do something you know where we talk about theater or whatever. So I thought, well, yeah, and we could do it maybe in the car after we see it, because people get in the cars, you know, after shows and they discuss, you know stuff.
Speaker 1:It's like what would we do like that? What?
Speaker 4:would we call it? Well, it'd be our takes on, you know whatever. So it'd be like a car, car. And so what car talks was taken? So car takes seemed like a good moniker for it, and I literally developed that all within the drive between my house and the theater. And when I got there I said here's my idea, you want to try it? And she said sure, it's real funny, you can go back.
Speaker 5:It's the first one on our YouTube channel to watch it, because you can see me pushing this and I think we're doing it Well. It's very fun and it's really funny, because I've been a critic for Broadway World for over 10 years now and, like you said, I mean I think there's a kind of a difference between, like, criticism and promotion, and I usually come at it as a fan. I don't want to bash anybody because it is hard, although I can tell you that I did film reviews for many years too before that, and I, like you, thought, oh well, nobody ever reads these and nobody gets their feelings hurt.
Speaker 4:And I started getting angry emails from director.
Speaker 5:No, oh god and I was like oh my gosh. So it's it's interesting, but it is. I think that Car Takes is something that really is so much fun with the theater community and just to see you two as vets of the scene, coming to everything and and talking about it, because I often see you guys like together.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, yeah, what's really nice is that how much the theater community clearly appreciates what we're doing Just a real sort of side benefit of doing all this. But people have spoken to us so many times about, you know, nobody is doing what you guys are doing and we so appreciate that you're actually out there trying to build up an audience. So, yeah, I'm delighted that we're still sort of niche-y and I would like for a broader audience to find us and so actually it occurred to me that I'd like to maybe somehow, because we'd be a real, I think, human interest story for like somebody, like Colbert or somebody, to say this is going on in Houston. Here are these people that are doing this thing that nobody else is. As far as I know, this is not happening in any other city. I mean probably not.
Speaker 5:No, I can't imagine. But you know it's interesting because you know we're talking about Houston theater, so it is a very niche kind of thing. I mean it's not national wide.
Speaker 5:I mean maybe if you guys ratcheted it up and maybe did politics or something like that, but then it would just not be the same, you know. So I don't know, but definitely if you want to catch Joel on stage, you've got 80 players through August 10th the Wizard of Oz at the George Theater. If you want to catch him on YouTube with Deborah right beside him, then you obviously turn into the car takes and Joel. Then you'd obviously turn into the car takes and Joel. Thank you so much for coming and talking about the wizard of Oz and all of these great things.
Speaker 5:One of my favorite stories, but it just daunting as an actor. So my hat's off to you for taking on, and the George as well taking on this incredible show and re kind of imagining it and putting it out there, even knowing that everybody's going to compare and one of the things I love about the george. They're actually showing the movie before one of their. I know that's nervy that's really that's nervy.
Speaker 4:So applause, I should say, because there there's, there's elements, you know, not only to get the show, but it snows during the show, so you may get snow in july and and there's all this flying and and there's just the spectacular dance numbers that they've added the jitterbug number back into this. So, as you get this big jitterbug number that's just so fun to watch and yeah, it's just, it's great, it's great, it's fun.
Speaker 5:Well, we're there. Thank you so much, and we'll talk to you again soon to you again soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brett. Glenn, the Queer Voices engineer, is out of town this week, which is why this episode sounds a bit different, but let's end today's show in the Queer Voices tradition of Glenn bringing us home.
Speaker 1:This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources. Check our webpage QueerVoicesorg for more information. Queer Voices executive producer is Brian Levinka. Debra Moncrief-Bell is co-producer Brett Cullum, davis Mendoza-Druzman Ethan Michelle Gans and.
Speaker 3:Mel Peterson are contributors.
Speaker 1:The News Wrap segment is part of another podcast called this Way Out, which is produced in Los Angeles.
Speaker 7:Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime. This program does not endorse any political views or animal species. Views, opinions and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent. In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining product.
Speaker 1:For Queer Voices. I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
