Queer Voices
Queer Voices
August 20th 2025 Queer Voices State Rep Jon Rosenthal and American Psycho The Musical Actor Tyce Green
Democracy under threat meets boundary-pushing theater in this powerful episode of Queer Voices, where urgent political resistance stands alongside daring artistic expression.
Texas Representative Jon Rosenthal pulls back the curtain on the high-stakes battle against mid-decade redistricting maps that would dramatically dilute minority voting power across Texas. As 2025 Pride Houston Ally Grand Marshal, Rosenthal doesn't hold back when describing what he calls a "racist redistricting power grab" aimed at dismantling historic districts once represented by civil rights icons like Barbara Jordan. His first-hand account of the Democratic walkout reveals the personal toll of political resistance—from $500 daily fines (when legislators only earn $600 monthly) to surveillance of lawmakers' homes and multiple lawsuits filed across states.
"When you charge us $500 a day, that comes out of your pocket," Rosenthal explains, detailing how Texas Republicans are attempting to make the protest financially unbearable. Beyond tactics, he shares a progressive vision for Democratic strategy, drawing from his own experience flipping a traditionally Republican district. His optimism about future elections stems from a belief that voters are increasingly "motivated and activated" despite structural challenges.
The conversation shifts "dramatically" when we welcome Tyce Green, founder of Houston Broadway Theater, discussing their upcoming production of American Psycho: The Musical. This regional premiere represents an ambitious artistic leap, bringing Duncan Sheik's controversial adaptation to Houston audiences September 2-14 at the Hobby Center. Green reveals fascinating production insights—from assembling a cast blending local talent with Broadway professionals to tackling technical challenges like the infamous "blood canon" special effect.
Whether fighting gerrymandering or pushing theatrical boundaries, both segments showcase individuals willing to challenge established systems when fundamental values are at stake. Listen now to hear these powerful conversations that illuminate how political and artistic expression can serve as vehicles for social commentary in today's rapidly evolving landscape.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
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And now Houston's only primetime radio program dedicated to news and concerns of the lesbi, gay and transgender community. This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast and radio show on KPFT 90.1 FM that's been on air for several decades as one of the oldest LGBTQ plus radio shows in the United States. From policy to pop culture, today's episode spans it all, including a timely interview with 2025 Pride, houston ally, grand Marshal, texas Representative John Rosenthal, on Texas's mid-decade redistricting and what these maps could mean for voters, as well as attacks on the LGBTQ plus community at the state legislature and more. We close our show with a chat with Tice Green from the upcoming American Psycho musical, for a behind-the-scenes look at the production's sound aesthetic and the thrill of embodying a cult classic on stage. It's a full slate, so we're skipping the snippets. Let's get right into it with our newest contributor, joel Tatum, and his conversation with Texas Representative John Rosenthal. Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 3:I'm Joel Tatum and you're listening to Queer Voices. Today we're focusing on a high stakes fight unfolding in Austin, as Democratic lawmakers were refusing to return to the statehouse, in a bold act of resistance, walking out to deny the Texas House a quorum and halt a controversial mid-decade redistricting plan that would dramatically favor the Republicans. Let's chat about it today with Democratic Representative John Rosenthal of District 135. Hi, John.
Speaker 4:Thank you for being here. Thank you for inviting me. I'm glad we can do this.
Speaker 3:We've got a lot of action going on, I see. We do indeed, we do indeed, we do indeed. First of all, let's talk about uh, let's talk about the uh, the two weeks out of town first, and what that, what that experience was like for you, and give us as much detail as you would like okay.
Speaker 4:So, uh, it's been, it's definitely been a wild ride. You know the whole thing. Um, while there was a lot of planning that was in place as soon as we started the special session, pulling the trigger on actually having all the Democrats break quorum happened very fast as soon as that racist redistricting power grab came out of committee was when we decided as a group to leave town and we jumped on a plane and flew to Chicago. And let me tell you, these people have pulled out all the stops you know to intimidate us, to coerce us, to threaten us. They had DPS officers parked outside of our family's homes even though we weren't there. Some agitators were threatening individuals. We had one member who had tires slashed.
Speaker 4:It was really difficult and that's before you get into the attorney general coming after us, filing lawsuits in four different states or something like that, and trying to charge Beto O'Rourke with a felony just for fundraising for us. You know he hadn't even given us money when they were trying to do that and of course that's a free speech thing. It's just ridiculous to do that. And of course that's a free speech thing. It's just ridiculous. But all these tactics charging us, fining us $500 a day for every calendar day. For those who don't know, we make $600 a month as state reps. So when you charge us $500 a day, that comes out of your pocket. And it was actually specified in the rule that they made up after the last corn break that we could not pay out of campaign funds. So this is supposed to come out of our or out of our office accounts. So they're really trying to make it painful on us personally.
Speaker 4:But you know what? We all signed up and we persevered and we killed that bill for the entire first called session. We brought national attention to the issue and now it's all over the news and California has started their special session for a trigger redistricting map. That would that the state would vote on the ability to temporarily adopt and set aside their nonpartisan redistricting commission just to offset the seats that could be lost in Texas. Now that does not help our people, you know, and you're in Houston with me, right. So they're gonna, you know, really change the boundaries of Congressional 18, which is a historic district that Barbara Jordan served in. Sheila, jackson Lee, craig Washington, you know, sylvester Turner was in that seat Mickey Leland some real icons of Texas history. They are black history in Texas, and then Congressional 9 will no longer be winnable for Al Green, so they're trying to redistrict him out of his seat and it's a real mess.
Speaker 3:Well, you guys have been. First of all, you've been keeping Ken Paxton bouncing all over the place, which is I'm trying to keep, I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible, but it is, it is hilarious.
Speaker 4:So from an unbiased view. He's easily one of the most corrupt politicians in the history of this state. He was impeached by the Texas House of Representatives and half of the Republicans voted to impeach him. It was so obvious and so egregious. And the lieutenant governor literally you know they talk about taking bribes and that stuff Lieutenant governor took three million dollars from from Paxton allies and campaign contribution and that's not considered a bribe. That's not considered a bribe. And then, lo and behold, the lieutenant governor then used the Senate to acquit Ken Paxton of his charges of misuse of office, bribery, corruption, you know all kinds of misdeeds.
Speaker 3:So let's, let's get into when you make it back to town. We have a representative I'm going to make. I'm hoping I got her last name right Representative Collier.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Nicole Collier is one of my sheroes. Nicole Collier is the is one of the best of us the House Democratic Caucus, so she's one of our more esteemed and talented members out of the Dallas area. And she refused to sign the permission slip where we agreed if we were leaving the chamber to have a police escort. So she refused to do that and, as a result, they have kept her locked in the Capitol in the House chamber. She slept there last night in an act of open defiance and righteousness.
Speaker 3:If I recall and I just read this today I think she has thrown in a lawsuit as well.
Speaker 4:I'm sure, that's true. She's a very talented attorney and, like I said, the best and the brightest of us, with quiet, confidence and experience. And so here's. Here's some little inside baseball stuff. When we choose our uh seating assignment in the house chamber, we get to do that by seniority and and I moved my seat this time so I could sit next to Nicole Collier so Rafael Anchia, who's another great talented lawyer and one of our senior members out of Dallas, is my deskmate, and then right on the other side is Nicole Collier and she, like, I think I'm a good researcher, I'm an oil field engineer and I'm a total wonky nerd kind of person. I do a lot of research. I do not come close to the preparation that nicole collier does. She is. She is amazing, like in real life, totally amazing and, um at large, in charge with this quiet. You never see her yelling or getting visibly, you know, agitated. She is just cool and calm and slices people apart with a scalpel.
Speaker 3:She is truly amazing and, as a Democratic voter, I need to ask this question Should we be extremely worried? Should we be with all this, with all this redistricting madness? I, I will, I will call it. Should we be worried?
Speaker 4:uh, yes, absolutely, and I think, uh, people across the country are worried because what's happening I mean the the issue in tex, texas, obviously is local, and they're going to dismantle historic districts and combine districts and try and force some of our great congressional representatives out. But really, if the way to combat this is fighting fire with fire, which is what Democrats are doing finally redraw their maps every time they have an election, if one side or the other, whoever's in charge, thinks they're going to lose that, that really deprives people of their ability to pick their representatives. So you have um partisans and party bosses in washington and virginia drawing these maps and they choose the voters to keep certain people in office. It's supposed to be the voters selecting our representatives, right? It's supposed to be the other way around. And so the real push here needs to be for a federal law to outlaw partisan gerrymandering across the board. Let there be fair maps, let people have contests of ideas and let communities of common interest be collected together to elect the leaders to represent them in government.
Speaker 3:And with the bid terms coming up, how do you think, in your opinion, how do you think, democrats will fare in the midterms?
Speaker 4:How do you think Democrats will fare in the midterms? So, even with all the redistricting and the prognosticating and everything else, I don't think they're quite taking into account the backlash that that we may see from this, from the horrible administration. Like I hate to even use the convicted felon in the White House. I hate to even use the convicted felon in the White House, I hate to even use his name. But if their policies are so bad that they have to rig the maps to try to keep control of Congress, you know that they are running scared. They're desperate to keep control because they know that Democrats are likely to take control of the House and maybe the Senate too.
Speaker 4:And I'm going to add this the last time that dude was president, when that administration came in and they were off the rails. Crazy was actually what inspired me to run for office, and this district where I'm sitting in right now House District 135 had been represented by a Republican for the same guy for 24 years and he had beat the last opponent by 10 points in 2016. But in 2018, I came back and beat him by two, so that was a 12-point swing in what was considered a ruby-red district in northwest Harris County. So all I got to say is it's gonna be on, baby like democrats rising up. People are up and down the ballot, motivated and activated, and there is a possibility that democrats are going to win some races that are not expected to win, like like I did in 2018.
Speaker 3:And do you see do I want to call it a policy change in the Democratic Party? Do you see the rise of progressives in the party? As we're watching the mayoral race in New York, which is fascinating it is really the most fascinating race I think I've ever watched, and I'm not even in New York so seeing more progressive. We've seen pushback from some Democrats in New York about progressives and now we've got a progressive on the ballot who could possibly win.
Speaker 3:He's probably going to win, so how are the Democrats handling the idea who could possibly win? I think he's probably going to win.
Speaker 4:So how are the Democrats handling the idea of more progressives coming into the party? So I actually have a pretty salty take on this, like I'm a progressive Democrat and no one people thought I had to be a centrist. And while you know, I like to think I'm pragmatic, I'm a progressive, especially on social policy, social justice, equity, justice, that sort of thing. Here's the way I see it. These sort of I don't know corporate centrist dems, sort of the old school Democrats that have been in office a long time, they're all scared and think a progressive can't win or whatever. It's like. Yo, you need to read the room.
Speaker 4:This guy is about to win the mayoral race in New York and the big time like party power brokers that are flipping out over this because they're going to have someone they can't control. Like I think they need to get used to it. I think it's it's going to be progressives that are going to be the heart of a major surge in Congress, probably in the Senate, in statehouse races across the country. That's what our base wants and that's really at this point. Progressive policies are stuff like let's make people safe, let's feed children, let's educate the population, the population like it's not exactly wingnut stuff. It's the things that everybody wants and um, and we're just fine and part of my partisanship. But we're just finding that republicans have chosen to abandon their morals and their values and all they do is serve a convicted felon in the white house, and that's not going to fly.
Speaker 3:I actually had a question. I had a question on my brain and I lost it, and I'm so sorry, john, for that, but I wanted to find out how are Democrats now going to reach out to the voters who kind of betrayed the party? Uh, in 2024, uh, by putting this man in office, uh, in the first place? We're talking, uh, how do we reach young men? How do we reach, uh, the immigrant population? How do we reach right?
Speaker 4:so the first thing I'm going to say is I'm looking at you michigan democrats who could not vote for kamala harris, and how's that working out right now? So, um, it needs to be. Uh, it really needs to be. Campaigning itself needs to be reimagined and re-envisioned. So we have to reach voters where they consume information and and the traditional campaign models, while that will still have value, the regular advertisements and yard signs and and definitely block walking. Certainly knocking on doors is how I won spaces. So the podcasts and the radio shows and going on TV and having our progressives step into the lion, the lion's den on Fox News and One America, whatever, whatever, like, we have got to get our message out. Part of the problem that we had in the last cycle was, by the time the Democrats were knocking on doors, people had already made up their minds because of the information they're consuming, you know, online and on TV and on talk radio, and so we have got to compete in those spaces.
Speaker 3:Because, let's face it, podcasting was exactly how we won, and it was through podcast that this I don't like to say his name either, but for the show, this is how Trump actually won a lot of voters that were maybe sitting on the fence. He won a lot of young men, especially young men, won a lot of young men, and now there's a lot of buyers remorse, of course. Lot of buyers remorse, of course. Uh, so basically put, you're now going to have to reach out to those voters who now have buyers remorse, who have now realized that their votes were well dumb.
Speaker 4:So well, when your grandma loses her health care, when you have trouble getting vaccines for your children to go to school, when school districts are closing campuses and underfunded and can't keep teachers around, you know it doesn't matter whether if you live in the city or the suburbs or rural texas.
Speaker 4:There's some stuff that we all care about that these people in washington are just plain screwing up right now, and that has to be our message not just that they're screwing up, but that we have real solid solutions, that we are coming with progressive policies that will serve the public. Whether you live in the middle of red, rural whatever, or you live in the heart of Houston, texas, or in the Valley or in the Panhandle, no matter where you are, this stuff reaches you, and I think people that have been unaffected before are now having it actually touch their lives. You know all those people who used to say I don't like to pay attention to politics, like I try to stay out of it. If you do not, um, you may not be involved in politics, but politics is involved with you, and so, uh, if you fail to exercise your vote, these people can do whatever they want and just basically rob our country, rob your tax dollars to give billionaires, you know more money. Tax breaks like nobody thinks that's OK and do you?
Speaker 3:how do you? Ok, I'm sorry, let me, let me get. Let's talk about the midterms for a little bit. Let's talk about the Democrats. Were to win both the House and the Senate, what's the first thing that you think Democrats need to do day one?
Speaker 4:What's the first thing that you think Democrats need to do day one? Day one is remove the filibuster in the Senate, and day two is pass a voting rights legislation that that outlaws gerrymandering, political vote picking, whatever you want to call it, vote picking, whatever you want to call it. Enshrined voting rights in our national law. And then, if you ask me you know I'm a progressive If you want to balance things out statehood for Washington DC and Puerto Rico, add a few justices to the Supreme Court and let's take away that the partisan advantage that has been handed to conservatives with the Electoral College, where you know, if you look at history, like North and South Dakota became two states so they could have four senators.
Speaker 4:Those two states put together have less population than the city I live in and so they don't, they shouldn't have four senators when California only has two and Texas, you know, only has two, and so you could really change the balance of power. And then you have to put, you have to balance the Supreme court with justices who are actually serious about the law and not creating a partisan policy from the bench of the Supreme Court, and then, if you want to go for really good measure, I would do term limits on all of us, including the Supreme Court, and then maybe we can get back to some good governance, that's, of the people, by the people, for the people of the people, by the people, for the people.
Speaker 3:What about uh now? What about um finally getting the vote on uh, the equal rights amendment? Because I why right? Why have we not?
Speaker 4:when, as a kid, when that thing was first being uh talked about in congress so yeah, federal equal rights amendment that establishes all humans have rights, whether you're, no matter what the color of your skin or your or your ethnic background, or if you're lgbt, or if you're, you know, native american or whatever you know. Right now, if they pass these maps in texas, a black person's vote will will count one one fifth what a white person's vote counts. Hispanic person's vote will count one third what a white person's vote was. So if you look at the racist crap that was built into the Constitution the three fifths thing they are literally trying to do that again by gerrymandering these districts. So so we got to get some equity happening and equal rights amendment. I've said this over and over Human rights are human rights. Trans rights are human rights. People everywhere should have the right to live free, live their lives fully expressed in any way, pursue happiness in any way they choose. As long as you're not messing with someone else, you should be able to do what you do.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. That's a fantastic answer, John. Thank you for that? Because I'm curious why have we not, but we have enough states? Why have we not, but we have? We have this, we have enough states, right? Why have we not put the era through? We've had years to do this and I don't know why the democratic party, we've had freaking decades.
Speaker 4:Like it boggles my imagination how this isn't like what. How long, what is it going to take in this country to decide every human living here has human rights. Like, don't all humans deserve human rights?
Speaker 3:I'm just saying what do you think is the future of Texas as far as you're concerned with voting and everything else? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:That's a really good question. So, um, people continue to flow into this state at uh, more people move to texas than any other state in the union. We have quite a bit of influx from uh, from california and new york uh in and you know, in between 2010 2020, states population grew by four million people and that was half Hispanic and and the next biggest chunk was African-American. And then more AAPI moved in to Texas than white people. So in the last five years, since 2020, that trend has stayed exactly the same 96% of our population growth is black and brown. So black, hispanic, asian, aapi and other.
Speaker 4:So, while no population is monolithic and you can't say, just because someone is this color or that background or came from this state or that state, that does not determine their partisan affiliation, but I think, um, if you employ policy that serves the people, then you will win at the ballot box. And uh, and this state is doing super racist stuff right now with uh, alien land laws, where they just enacted senate bill 17 in this session that does not allow people from china to buy land in this state. I mean it like we're going back to like world war one, civil war, uh, stuff that just people don't like it. They think it's unfair and and the truth is, conservatives like conscientious conservatives. You remember back in day we used to be able to have reasonable discussions with people we disagreed with and our Republican friends. We could debate the finer points of policy and how you should do this or that. You know we need to get back to that. Well, until we have a new system in place.
Speaker 3:I know, as a voter, I miss. I so miss those days. I miss the days when voting was boring, when the news was boring.
Speaker 3:That is the honest statement to say, but I miss the days when voting was boring. I voted straight Democrat, was home and was 15 minutes in, 15 minutes out. That's that's all I'm as a voter. That's all I'm supposed to do. Now I'm being drawn into things that I'm like. Now I have to have opinions about things. Now I have to think about how I want to approach people. Now I have to think about who my friends are. I've lost quite a few friendships due to the 2024 election. I've had to cut family members off due to the 2024 election. So I yes, I miss those days. I completely do. Will we ever see those days again? It may I'm. Are we looking? It may take about a couple of generations before that happens. It days again. It may I'm. Are we looking? They may take about a couple of generations before that happens.
Speaker 4:It may or it may not. So the way that things break once something starts to movement, gains momentum, stuff happens very quickly and of course we're seeing that right now with this authoritarian shift. But I think, uh, once people get fed up enough, there will be a breaking point. I think this whole epstein file controversy, that sort of thing is, is the sort of thing that might feed this. And well, I think it's not super substantive. You know, like I didn't care if bill clinton got you know in the overall oval office, I actually don't care if care if some of these leaders were on an Epstein jet at one time or another. Now, if they're pedophiles, we should act on that accordingly.
Speaker 4:But what I'm saying is remember, at the end of the McCarthy era, people were afraid to speak out while that was going on and they would be accused of this or that. It sort of has a ring like like history rhymes and right now anybody speaking out against you know donald trump is going to get primaried or whatever. At some point, you know enough people will wake up and be like the famous line you know, have you no decency, sir? Because human beings, I think, are naturally decent and it takes some learning. Someone has to teach you to hate people, and so at some point I hope people will kind of return. I've never lost my faith in humanity, although it gets shaken sometimes.
Speaker 4:But you have to think people of good conscience at some point will go hey, that's wrong. It's just wrong, this redistricting thing. It's just wrong. You're changing the rules in the middle of the game because you know you're going to lose. No one would put up with that in a football game or a basketball game, like oh, my team's going to lose, so we're going to change out all the refs. Oh, my team's going to lose, so we're going to change out all the refs. And now my team every shot they take will be worth four points, and the other team every shot they take will be worth one point. Nobody thinks that's okay. No one wants to see that.
Speaker 3:And you know we're just about out of time. What do you want to say to voters about everything that has happened up until today, in the last two weeks? What do you want to say to voters?
Speaker 4:I want to say if you haven't paid attention before, the time is now. Pay attention, be involved, find out who represents you. You can Google in Texas. You can google who represents me. Brings up a form and put in your address. You get all the contact information for everybody that represents you. Engage with those people, check them out, learn what they're about and then um call their offices. Like we keep records of that stuff. The people must let their elected employees know what they want. We're employees, we're temporaries in these roles, so politicians need to learn to respect their voters, and the way they do that is by having you engage. So please get engaged and make sure no one stays silent.
Speaker 3:Two more questions and then we're going to call it a day John. Two more questions and then we're gonna we're gonna call it a day john. Um, any, uh, any uh.
Speaker 4:Thoughts of, uh, maybe a major run later on in your, in your future, maybe for a national office or something like that.
Speaker 3:I've jokingly called you senator several times, so I've often well not running for Senate and I so there's.
Speaker 4:You know you can't help but think about certain things. I'm, while we're in the middle of all this, I'm kind of putting off all of that sort of thought and conversation. You know where I got. I'm not going to run for Senate or for Congress, so let's right now. My intent is to run to keep the HD 135 seat in Democrat hands, of course, and I'm also working on school board elections. So the down ballot races are super important. And if you didn't think it mattered who sits on your school board, if you live in Cy Fair or Katie School District, it matters now. So I would just encourage everybody to be involved. And then, if you end up seeing my name on a ballot, it's hard to imagine I would do that this time, but weirder stuff happens all the time, so I would just stay tuned.
Speaker 3:Weirder stuff happens all the time, so I would just stay tuned.
Speaker 4:Well being that you were no that you still are Grand Marshal ally of Houston Pride. I'm so proud of that. It's just such an amazing. That whole thing has been such an amazing deal and I don't know if folks want to go look at some of my speeches on the house floor. There's a reason why folks uh felt like nominating me for that honor and then, once being named, I I have continued to speak out, to be vocal, to go after those people. They go after, they go after any communities, but especially like these folks like to use trans people as political fodder. It's like yo, these are human beings just trying to live their lives.
Speaker 3:Leave them the fuck alone and I, I think we, I think we've asked all the questions we can ask. And you know what, john, I'm so grateful that you sat down with me and talked to the queer voices community to let them know exactly what they need to know and how they need to get involved. Any social media you want to push, any anything that you know that voters can maybe reach you, and, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:Here's. Here's a quick little secret. If you google john rosenthal cell phone, my cell phone number comes up, because I used it when I first ran for office like one person working on the campaign and you have to write a campaign contact. It was me. So that's one thing, but you can also find me on like the website formerly known as Twitter. I'm John J-O-N, underscore Rosenthal TX, or Facebook or Instagram, and actually if you message me, I'll usually answer you. It may not be immediately, but I like to be easy to find. Folks should be able to find their elected employees and tell us what you want from us. So, um, yeah, please find me on social media. Reach out. John rosenthal tx is the website like. You can find me that way. We're in the middle of an upgrade on that thing. Hopefully it'll come out nice, but, uh, find me well, you know what.
Speaker 3:Thank you, john, for being on our show and, ladies and gentlemen, you were. You were just listening to John Rosenthal, representative of District 135. Thank you, john, for being on the show, and we're going to catch up with you next time, because we need more updates, we need to know what's going on, so I'm hoping yeah, hit me up in a week or two.
Speaker 4:I will probably have some stuff going on, got it.
Speaker 3:So thank you, John, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2:Before we get to our conversation between contributor Brett Cullum and founder of Houston Broadway Theater and star of the upcoming American Psycho Musical, all of our episodes need to be exactly 58 minutes long and currently we're at 56 minutes and 10 seconds.
Speaker 2:So here to fill one minute and 50 seconds of content. I'm here to talk about next week's episode. As you may know, Houston, where many of our team live and operate, has a lot of LGBTQ plus serving organizations and a lot of coalitions. We have the Harris County LGBTQ Plus Commission, we have Queens of Houston or Queer Unified Emergency and Empowerment Network, and we have the Mayor's LGBTQ Plus Advisory Board, the latter of which has gotten a lot of media attention due to the abrupt firing of their chair under the former mayor. Next week, our episode will be dedicated to the former and new chair of that advisory board, so be sure to tune in next week. Let's get to our final interview of the episode with Tice Green, founder of Houston Broadway Theater and star of the upcoming American Psycho musical, Brett Cullum. Take it away.
Speaker 6:Tice Green is the founder and artistic director of Houston Broadway Theater. He started his acting career here in Houston with several companies, including Tuts and Stages, and then he ran off to New York City and went there and became a model. He became an actor, he became a singer. He has tons of hits with his rock and roll style cabaret performances, even made an album with legendary producer and writer Jim Steinman, who wrote for Meatloaf, bonnie Tyler and someone named Celine Dion I'm not so sure if you know her and Barbra Streisand.
Speaker 6:Tice has appeared on Project Runway as one of the male models for several seasons and one of his biggest latest gigs was an Andrew Lloyd Webber touring production of Jesus Christ Superstar. And Tice starred in last season's Next to normal, which was houston broadway theater's auspicious debut, and it was one of the best shows of the last year by a long shot, even when you compare it to other companies. Well, now he's back and so is houston broadway theater with american psycho, the musical running at the hobby center september 2nd through the 14th. So nice to see you again, tice. Hello, hello, all right, let's just my first question and this is the elephant in the room American Psycho. Are you insane? Because this is a cult musical and you are bringing its regional debut to Houston. London and New York were shocked by this. It had a really hard time finding audiences. How are you going to get away with murder and show tunes in Houston? Great question.
Speaker 5:Pass. No, I'm just kidding. Well, as a new theater company, what we're really trying to do is we're trying to bring titles to Houston that have not been here, or it's been a really long time since they've been here, or they've never been here in the capacity that we're bringing them. How do we find those audiences been here in the capacity that we're bringing them? How do we find those audiences? I think that the reason that we exist is because those audiences exist and they don't have a place to go. They don't have a place currently where. Where can you go and see what theater company here is going to produce American Psycho and do it at the Hobby Center? My big vision in creating this theater company was we have so many amazing small theater companies here that do 99 seat theater and black box theater and that programming is really well handled with existing companies. And then we have behemoth companies, you know, like the alley and tuts. These are just like giant, giant organizations where you go into these you know 2,000, 3,000 seat theaters. I think that there's something where you know if you do really interesting titles on a really big scale. We're working to try to find those audiences.
Speaker 5:I picked American Psycho this year because for a couple of reasons. One is it's never had not only has it never had a Houston debut, our production is the first union regional production. It has been produced a couple of times at what are called non-equity theaters, which just means that the actors are non-union and there's you know, they're usually kind of smaller scale stuff Ours is going to be the biggest production that the show has ever had regionally. We're also very lucky in that Duncan Sheik, who wrote the music, is working on it with us. He is lending his hand to give us insight. So that's exciting, especially for a regional theater.
Speaker 5:American Psycho is very interesting in 2025, because, if you strip away the horror of it all and the Patrick Bateman of it all, it's ultimately a story about identity.
Speaker 5:Patrick is ultimately this guy who is trying to find his footing in. The whole show is really about the bastardization of the American dream set in the late 80s Glamour and money and who's got the best clothes and goes to the best restaurants. And it's an interesting commentary to see in 2025 because we're seeing a really big gap, a big disparity between the classes. Depending upon what side of the political spectrum you are, I think the story impacts you in a different way. If you're coming to the story of a more conservative viewed person, I think it's going to impact you in one way. If you're coming to the theater as a more liberal and left-leaning person, it's going to impact you in a very different way. Houston is a city that is quite diverse in both culture and political leaning. Our audiences, I think, are going to be filled with people that have a mixture of views and cultural backgrounds, so that's going to be very interesting to see what their response is.
Speaker 6:Let me geek out a little bit here for a second. I absolutely was thrilled to see the announcement that it was American Psycho and I was like you're kidding me. This is amazing. I love Brett Easton Ellis. I have read every one of his books. I read the book when it came out in 1991.
Speaker 6:Brett admitted a little bit later that it was a very personal book for him, that he felt like it was something that he slipped into into Patrick Bateman's world where he lived in this kind of consumerist void that was supposed to give him confidence but really made him feel just completely isolated and not there. If you flash forward about 10 years, in 2000, mary Herron directed a movie of it and the book was considered unfilmable because of the graphic violence and all of the things that have happened in the book, and Mary really introduced a satirical element into it, just like in Brett's books, that maybe it's not as real as we think it is and maybe it's not as real as Patrick thinks it is. So the musical Duncan Sheik, roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is that what I'm saying? Yeah, all right, he's famous for comic book writing as well as plays Duncan Sheik, obviously making it more of a rock thing, which makes sense for you and your company.
Speaker 6:By the way, I've never seen the musical. I've heard it, but I've never had a chance to, and I think that's one of the things that's really exciting is that Houston is actually going to have a chance to see this, when it has been very limited produced. I was looking through the productions and significant ones that I can find are like 2013 in London, 2016 in Broadway, 2019 Sydney, 2023 in Chicago. It won all kinds of awards that year and there is a 2026 London revival which is set to go up as well, so it's a great time to do it. So don't I'm totally excited about it, but I think it's a. It's a tough sell in a weird way, because there was so much controversy around every iteration of this piece of work. It is kind of interesting to see it as a commentary on delusion. Maybe tell me a little bit about your cast.
Speaker 5:It's a half Houston cast and a half Broadway cast, so that's always been built into. Our mission is to have not necessarily half exactly every single time, but the mission from both backstage to onstage is to mix Houston professionals with Broadway professionals. There are some there's a couple of people in the in the cast that are coming to us like directly from having graduated at Sam Houston. This is their first professional regional show, so that's pretty cool too, I think. The makeup of all the different kinds of people. We also have people in the show that have Broadway credits, that are from Houston originally, that live in New York now, but now they're coming back home in order to be in the show.
Speaker 5:That's how I grew up doing theater. I was always in shows and cast that did that. The way that I learned how to be a professional was it was less about getting proper training in a classroom and it was more about just being thrust into a show. And then I was 19 doing the Sound of Music. I was playing Rolf and the Captain Von Trapp was the longest running beast on Broadway. I just thought that was the coolest thing. And then Maria was. She was like the only woman in the history of Les Mis to have ever played both Fontaine and Cosette, like she started as Cosette and then she graduated to Fontaine and you know, between the two of them they had like 15 Broadway credit.
Speaker 6:It's a tough show to cast, I think because you've got a lot of men in their mid 20s and it's a very specific look. It's a very specific act. Duncan Sheik has written a very specific score that sounds late 80s, early 90s kind of pop rock. It's tough to execute. So I mean, was that hard to find the people that could actually approach this? Because this is not your average musical. The score is very interesting.
Speaker 5:You're right, there are some 80s tunes that are infused into it. What is unique about the handful of 80s tunes that are infused in it is that they are all completely rearranged. You know, usually in jukebox musicals and this isn't a jukebox musical, but usually when you have existing songs, pop songs that are infused in a musical, they're kind of musical theater, if I'd, but they're pretty much like the originals, like you know, because the whole point is to have something in the show that people recognize and they and they, you know, is mimicked on stage. With this show it's very different. Like you know, there are there's like a choral arrangement of in the air tonight by phil collins, which is very different than the original. So I think the way that it's infused in the show is very interesting.
Speaker 5:And then, yeah, his music. You know, I would I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but I would I would go so far as to say the show is definitely set in like 1989. The music feels way more 90s. It's like it's a little bit more electronic and has more of like a clubby kind of sound to it. But I think I don't think that's anything that Duncan wouldn't say. So you're right.
Speaker 6:In his defense. Tice, I was there and I can tell you that the sound of the show.
Speaker 3:From what I've heard is pretty true to 1989.
Speaker 6:It's definitely. It does have that vibe, because you have to remember that when we were crossing decades, usually the decade starts right in the tail end of it, and then the 90s kind of started in 89. They were kind of moving towards that. So this is a very show that is steeped in the late 80s, early 90s, and I heard that very prominently in the soundtrack.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, but I do agree with you, it was what became popular in the 90s but it was definitely something that was bubbling up through the clubs at that point, but it's one of the things that's interesting to me about duncan's.
Speaker 5:Like you said, he's taking songs that aren't necessarily club songs, like in the air tonight, and made them kind of commentaries in the show and things like that, and that's definitely not one that sounds slick and because it is, I mean you can count it. Like you said, there's been there has been a production in Chicago, at least in the US, and a production in after Broadway production in Chicago and a production DC. They were both small black box productions that got a lot of acclaim, but that's it and we had a lot of turnout for the show and it was really cool seeing in the in the auditions. We auditions both in houston and in new york and I mean there were some people that walked in into the new york auditions where I went. Really, you like you, you want to do it like you want to do our show.
Speaker 5:Okay, you want to come down to houston person who I've seen? Do you know three, four broadway shows? You know, to speak to your point about the film director and about you know the difference between the, the novel, and the film, the musical, also its own version. What we're finding is that there's a. There's a pretty stark difference between what the script calls for and what the original broadway direction was like. Rupert gold was the broadway director and he's also directing it again at the alameda in london, coming up for the revival.
Speaker 5:He started it more grounded and it sort of got way more surreal as the show progressed. And then by the end of it in the second act you've got Patrick in his underwear almost Sunset Boulevard style now you would call it drenched in blood, doing scenes where the other people in the scene don't acknowledge that he looks like that and they just do sort of a regular scene. So that was very like surreal. The movie is satirical in a way that it's coming from a real place. But then there's just these like kind of wacky I would go so far as to say like a little cartoony sometimes. Like there is a. There is definitely like a thread of heightenedness that is in the movie that comes with this kind of tongue in cheek, wink, wink kind of thing, and it's also very 80s. The movie, the fashion is very 80s. They were not afraid to do like a boxy suit, teased hair, like you know, so they went really full on that. The musical kind of like the music, dipped a little bit more into the 90s with a little bit more kind of slimmer silhouettes and I think it kind of suspended disbelief there.
Speaker 5:On the fashion, I'll tell you, like our production, we really are trying to start it and keep it as grounded as possible and I think the reason for that is, like the the director, joe calarco, no matter what the subject matter is, he's always looking to strengthen the relationships between the characters. Relationships are everything on stage, regardless of what the cadence is or the tone. Everything is just about people interacting with each other and what those relationships are about and what they want from each other and what the conflicts are. It is way less graphic than the novel. The show accomplishes paring down some of the really really crazy vulgarity of the novel. The show accomplishes paring down some of the really really crazy vulgarity of the novel but retains the groundedness. We're not playing super high satire.
Speaker 5:I think that the musical elements in the show lend themselves to the satire. It's a musical right, so a musical already has a little bit of like we're singing, so you can't take us too seriously, anyway. So I'm excited about it because I think there's an opportunity to let the satire come through, but really come through from a grounded place. And I'm interested to see how people respond to that, because I think when it's played really real and really straightforward and the jokes are just funny because they're being played in a very real way, then you start asking those questions. Like you said, one of the coolest parts of this whole story whether it's the novel or the movie or the musical is there are moments in the in the show and in the story where you go. Is that really happening or is that in his mind? And I think when you play it from a grounded place it makes it harder for the audience to know that and it allows for a lot more interpretation. I think it's cool. That's.
Speaker 6:That's one of my favorite parts about the whole story you know, I want to ask you a little bit about the tech you mentioned next to normal, and the tech for next to normal was amazing, it was really great. But you guys ran one weekend and then with this one you've got september 2nd through the 14th. So you, you grounded a little bit, a little bit longer run Is the set. I mean again a challenging set. I mean there's a ton of locations here, it's ice.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:You have to go to Les Mis at intermission. I mean, come on.
Speaker 5:You sound like my production manager. Okay, stop yelling at me.
Speaker 6:The sets are going to be wild. How are you going to solve that part of it?
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, and we have. So we have a set design that's done and we're in, we're in pre-production now and you know we've been able to zilk has a small space and so, without giving too much away, we've been able to kind of not dissimilar to next to normal, like kind of create a playground where things can come on and off and small pieces and props can come on, to kind of create, you know, this new setting and then go off and then we go over here to this side and we're in this new setting, we're, we're playing around with more projections.
Speaker 6:There's some interesting tv elements involved and it has to be because Patrick Bateman is obsessed with television, so yeah, you have to have that in there. And then the gore.
Speaker 5:That's a whole world unto itself as well this is the the first time I've ever been in a production meeting where the word blood canon was used. And, you know, one of us asked we were like, what exactly is a blood canon? That's interesting. That's one of the things we've had to sort out is, like, because that's that's special effects, and figuring out how we're going to do that, and and I don't want to give it away, but what I will tell you is that the conversations that were had were like okay, do we, in this world of digital screens and stuff, do we animate the blood? Do we, you know, do we utilize a Sunset Boulevard style thing where you've got like one thing happening up here on a screen but then, you know, then suddenly you see the blood in real life.
Speaker 5:That scene, especially the scene where spoiler alert where he kills paul allen, if you haven't seen the movie or read the novel, then well, it's not really. You know, come on, where have you been? It's like not knowing the ending of titanic, but well, I mean spoiler alert for a book that was published in 1991 okay, exactly, exactly, yeah, it's an important scene.
Speaker 5:You know, he, he takes oute and it's the. It's the most famous scene in the movie and so we're really taking it seriously and trying to play around with what's possible in a small space. But again, this is another. It's another reason why I pick shows like this, because there's all these different elements of theater that are challenging for a reason. But here we are having the opportunity to put this stuff in front of Houston audiences. Most people I mean we're finding this like most people nobody knows that there's a musical. You know, unless you're, like a niche theater person in New York, or you know, or you, or you just know it from being a theater person. Nobody knows that there's a musical. But I've been really what's been really cool is like just in our current marketing efforts, like the people that have responded to it by going oh, I love the movie and whoa, wait, it's a musical.
Speaker 6:I mean, come on, okay. So the london production matt smith and jonathan bailey were in it, which is amazing. The broadway production benjamin walker helped workshop it and then carried it on there. I mean it definitely has a pedigree to a degree. I mean it's definitely one of those, but it is kind of one of those that did not have a long run, is not going to be well known, did not tour around the country. I mean, tuts is not going to be doing this part of season, whatever they're on right now. So, yeah, I mean it's a, it's a bold move and it's definitely the show that I'm looking the most forward to this year. I'm very excited that you're doing it. I think bringing it with Houston Broadway Theater and doing it half Houston and half Broadway brilliant stroke, bringing in all of these people I mean I'm totally stoked for it. I mean I don't want you to get the impression that I'm not, but I do think it's a little bit. What is the word?
Speaker 5:Well, you think it's risky? I'm sure.
Speaker 6:It is definitely a risk. It is definitely one of those things that you look at theater and theater is about creating solutions to problems, and at theater and theater is about creating solutions to problems, and I think that American Psycho has some really interesting problems to solve. So my hats are off to you for taking that on, because this is definitely not the simplest musical that I've heard being produced this year.
Speaker 5:Well, I'll tell you this because, like, from an audience perspective, look, because sometimes when I think about programming, I try to simplify a lot of the times, like, I just try to go, like, if I'm just a muggle, so to speak, right, and I'm going out for a night at the theater, well, there's a lot of different reasons why I can go and see a show. There's a lot of different places that I can go and see a show, or go to a concert instead, or go, like I have a lot of choices, right, the going out for an evening. You have a lot of choices, and so we're trying to be a unique choice. I have so much respect for the amount of theater that we have in Houston. Like, I think the fact that we're, the fact that we we even have the capability to be a new theater company that has the prospect of inviting in new audiences, is because there are already audience bases that exist, that have been exposed to theater at least in some capacity, whether it is, like I said, all those other places that I mentioned before.
Speaker 5:And you're right, like Tuts is not going to do American Psycho, but that's also not what Tuts does. How amazing is it and how, like culturally significant? Is it to be like you've got Spelling Bee going on in Tuts and the next door you have, like you know, someone's swinging an axe and and blood firing? Tuts is where I grew up. We keep talking about tuts, but that's that's where I I grew up doing theater and I love all the shows there and I love the entire team there and professional sorry go ahead.
Speaker 6:Yeah, they're an amazing. They're a legendary company here. I mean obviously been around forever and done some of the most ambitious things here and, and you know, originated some shows here and definitely specialized like the disney type musicals. I mean beauty and the beast started here with them. They've done a lot of things like that and fyi heathers was at zilka hall and that's actually how I produced that.
Speaker 6:So there you go, and not to denigrate them, but it definitely is an ambitious choice. I think this what I'm trying to say is that it definitely is a risky, it's an edgy one, it's one that I really, really respect. It says a lot to your integrity as an artist and a lot to your ambition as somebody, as a producer, to actually take this project on, and I'm very excited about it. I mean, it's definitely one of the shows that I am absolutely looking forward to the most in 2025.
Speaker 5:So it's gonna be cool, it's really gonna be cool, just to remind everybody, american psycho, the actual musical.
Speaker 6:And yes, there is a musical and it will run at the hobby center september 2nd through the 14th, presented by houston broadway theater. Your director, again real quick who? Joe calarco. And of course you've got an entire amazing technical team taking this on and everything else, a bunch of cast members that we can't even mention yet, but I'm sure as we get closer to the date I'm going to pull you aside to do that. But in the meantime, break legs, sever limbs, couple of axes to some actors, whatever. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources. Check our webpage queervoicesorg for more information. Queer Voices executive producer is Brian Levinka. Debra Moncrief-Bell is co-producer Brett Cullum, davis Mendoza-Druzman Eva Michelle Ganz. Mel Peterson and Joel Tatum are contributors. The News Wrap segment is part of another podcast called this Way Out, which is produced in Los Angeles.
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Speaker 1:For Queer Voices. I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
